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	<title>Comments on: The Last Public Meeting</title>
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	<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021</link>
	<description>Biting Commentary about Infinity...and Beyond!</description>
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		<title>By: gravityloss</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55915</link>
		<dc:creator>gravityloss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>*)
spacefaring future meaning humanity launching stuff into space daily, doing things there, using extraterrestrial resources routinely and many people living off-earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*)<br />
spacefaring future meaning humanity launching stuff into space daily, doing things there, using extraterrestrial resources routinely and many people living off-earth.</p>
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		<title>By: gravityloss</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55914</link>
		<dc:creator>gravityloss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55914</guid>
		<description>Yes yes yes, this whole mess that is the huge disconnect between a spacefaring future* and NASA human spaceflight is finally an inch closer to discussion. Everybody has had to act so extremely ignorantly and short sightedly, layman-like, about it. Jeff Greason has really done a huge service to humanity by just being rational and directly looking at things.

I once had a research group leader who was like that. She just attacked problems directly and solved them. Sure, there were some nifty inventions, and a couple of big ideas, and some trial and error when you iterate, but most of the time it was &quot;it&#039;s so obvious, why didn&#039;t anyone think of it before?&quot;

Our world is still so much built on irrational assumptions, that many problems are much harder than what they seem, since the whole approach to them is completely wrong. Perhaps the approach is wrong for historical reasons, or due to some misunderstanding. Once you realize what the problem really is, the solution is straightforward.

With spacefaring, the problem is launch rate - a low one prevents RLV:s. Everything else is just small rational steps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes yes yes, this whole mess that is the huge disconnect between a spacefaring future* and NASA human spaceflight is finally an inch closer to discussion. Everybody has had to act so extremely ignorantly and short sightedly, layman-like, about it. Jeff Greason has really done a huge service to humanity by just being rational and directly looking at things.</p>
<p>I once had a research group leader who was like that. She just attacked problems directly and solved them. Sure, there were some nifty inventions, and a couple of big ideas, and some trial and error when you iterate, but most of the time it was &#8220;it&#8217;s so obvious, why didn&#8217;t anyone think of it before?&#8221;</p>
<p>Our world is still so much built on irrational assumptions, that many problems are much harder than what they seem, since the whole approach to them is completely wrong. Perhaps the approach is wrong for historical reasons, or due to some misunderstanding. Once you realize what the problem really is, the solution is straightforward.</p>
<p>With spacefaring, the problem is launch rate &#8211; a low one prevents RLV:s. Everything else is just small rational steps.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill White</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55892</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55892</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Korea, Japan or Russia would probably be sending postcards from Europa or Enceladus now if they had sustained HSF budgets of $4B a year over a past few decades.&lt;/i&gt;

This was so good I just thought that it should be repeated. Just about spewed my water on that one.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hey, a Singapore flagged EML-1 transfer station complemented with RLLs could help facilitate that result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>Korea, Japan or Russia would probably be sending postcards from Europa or Enceladus now if they had sustained HSF budgets of $4B a year over a past few decades.</i></p>
<p>This was so good I just thought that it should be repeated. Just about spewed my water on that one.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey, a Singapore flagged EML-1 transfer station complemented with RLLs could help facilitate that result.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Wingo</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55885</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Wingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55885</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Korea, Japan or Russia would probably be sending postcards from Europa or Enceladus now if they had sustained HSF budgets of $4B a year over a past few decades.&lt;/em&gt;

This was so good I just thought that it should be repeated.  Just about spewed my water on that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Korea, Japan or Russia would probably be sending postcards from Europa or Enceladus now if they had sustained HSF budgets of $4B a year over a past few decades.</em></p>
<p>This was so good I just thought that it should be repeated.  Just about spewed my water on that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil H.</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55868</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt; Here’s the chart of all the options being evaluated. There is no obvious weighting of the criteria, but to first order, all of the options seem to suck. There are a lot more negative numbers than positive ones. None of them are scored as sustainable. 

First off, this was the preliminary version of the chart, and after it was presented they had some in-depth discussions which led to many of the numbers being changed. Also, the definition of &quot;sustainable&quot; was a little funny, having to do a lot more with the likelihood of it getting initial congressional support, rather than economic sustainability. I think Jeff Greason made a comment about how it shouldn&#039;t really be described as sustainability, because if you overcome the initial congressional resistance to transformation, it doesn&#039;t become something you have to worry about in the long term. The economic sustainability aspect probably falls more under the &quot;economic expansion&quot; criterion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Here’s the chart of all the options being evaluated. There is no obvious weighting of the criteria, but to first order, all of the options seem to suck. There are a lot more negative numbers than positive ones. None of them are scored as sustainable. </p>
<p>First off, this was the preliminary version of the chart, and after it was presented they had some in-depth discussions which led to many of the numbers being changed. Also, the definition of &#8220;sustainable&#8221; was a little funny, having to do a lot more with the likelihood of it getting initial congressional support, rather than economic sustainability. I think Jeff Greason made a comment about how it shouldn&#8217;t really be described as sustainability, because if you overcome the initial congressional resistance to transformation, it doesn&#8217;t become something you have to worry about in the long term. The economic sustainability aspect probably falls more under the &#8220;economic expansion&#8221; criterion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferris Valyn</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55861</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferris Valyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55861</guid>
		<description>Rand - one thign for clarification - that chart has changed quite a bit, during the meeting.  From my notes, I&#039;ll see if there is a way to put together a revised chart</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rand &#8211; one thign for clarification &#8211; that chart has changed quite a bit, during the meeting.  From my notes, I&#8217;ll see if there is a way to put together a revised chart</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Mealling</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55817</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Mealling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55817</guid>
		<description>Some of those negative numbers include silly &quot;risk&quot; assessments. Bo considers anything new to be to risky to &quot;chance&quot; the space program on. And Norm tended to discount anything that didn&#039;t require super heavy lift. Jeff tried to fight it but got little support from others. He seems to have convinced everyone but Norm and Bo but no on else seemed willing to back him on it. It does seem that Sally has come around to Jeff&#039;s reasoning fairly strongly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of those negative numbers include silly &#8220;risk&#8221; assessments. Bo considers anything new to be to risky to &#8220;chance&#8221; the space program on. And Norm tended to discount anything that didn&#8217;t require super heavy lift. Jeff tried to fight it but got little support from others. He seems to have convinced everyone but Norm and Bo but no on else seemed willing to back him on it. It does seem that Sally has come around to Jeff&#8217;s reasoning fairly strongly.</p>
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		<title>By: Good News Everyone &#171; Gravity Loss</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55793</link>
		<dc:creator>Good News Everyone &#171; Gravity Loss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55793</guid>
		<description>[...] 2009.08.12 by gravityloss    From Hobbyspace, highlighted by Transterrestrial Musings: The program of record (i.e. Ares I/V/Orion/Altair), which exceeds the expected budget [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2009.08.12 by gravityloss    From Hobbyspace, highlighted by Transterrestrial Musings: The program of record (i.e. Ares I/V/Orion/Altair), which exceeds the expected budget [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rand Simberg</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55768</link>
		<dc:creator>Rand Simberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55768</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t assume that it was necessarily a negative thing -- I just wasn&#039;t sure what you meant exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t assume that it was necessarily a negative thing &#8212; I just wasn&#8217;t sure what you meant exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill White</title>
		<link>http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021&#038;cpage=1#comment-55762</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=21021#comment-55762</guid>
		<description>I meant &quot;blew up&quot; in a positive manner, as in challenge pre-existing paradigms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant &#8220;blew up&#8221; in a positive manner, as in challenge pre-existing paradigms.</p>
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