It occurs to me that Old Europe doesn't dislike what we're doing in Iraq so much as the very fact that we can do it. It reminds them of their own impotence and irrelevance, and in many, a fear that they could be next. Thus, the quick and relatively easy victory makes them more, not less angry and frightened.

What they don't understand is that while we could conquer (or at least destroy) any nation on the planet, we have no desire to do so. The nations in which we could accomplish what we just did are far fewer--an extreme dislike for their own government, and an inability to change it in any non-violent way, are essential preconditions.

Unfortunately, while such nations are fewer, there are still far too many. But at least there's one less than there was a month ago.

I think you should remember to draw a distinction between the Government or Media of "Old Europe" and their citizens. As in America, just because a certain politician takes a stand (or refuses to) it doesn't mean that all the people represented by that politician have the same opinion.

Chirac and his Government pals aside, I think you'll find that common opinion in some of the countries of Old Europe is fairly split. As I sit here in central, rural Germany, the majority of the people I've spoken with were hesitantly for the US efforts to remove Saddam. They're worried about the rebuilding efforts in Iraq, but it seems to be more about caution and consequences and less about 'anti-Bush' sentiment.

These are working class people, and they value many of the same things that we do. Lumping them in with a bunch of US-hating protestors is no more accurate than lumping you in with West-Coast leftists.

Of course, I've not been to Berlin or Paris lately, so maybe the average citizen there has a different view...

-S

To the governments of Old Europe, America is an "upstart," and probably will be until doomsday. Hey, remember how upset Rufus T. Firefly was at being called an "upstart" in Duck Soup?

Stephen,

I don't understand. The Left regularly cited polls that nations that supported us had 90% opposed to the war (Spain). The majority of the European nations supported us, yet in most cases, so the claim went, the populations were overwhelmingly opposed.

Does this presage a REAL problem w/ polls and poll-reporting? Or is this simply bin Laden correctly predicting that "people will back the stronger horse"?

10% for, 90% against, who does these polls? We heard from most news outlets that we were alone in wanting Saddam out of Iraq. It now appears that the only hold out turns out to be our buddy Chirac. His foreign minister is starting to look like the information minister from Baghdad with American planes buzzing over head. In a word foolish. The whole world knows it, and they may not tell us this out loud.

The term Old Europe is a misnomer. What we term Old Europe was the European map/govenments of the 20th century. There is no Old Europe any more than there is an "Old" anything else. The map of 20th century europe was made up after WWI by the victors, just like the map of the middle east and asia was redrawn by colonial empires in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.

Periodically, and ever more swiftly, world powers come and world powers go. Right now we are at the top of the heap, with no equals. 75 years ago we were not considered a world power. We had no empire, we had no significant foreign lands, we had only our own hands and raw talent. We have drawn on the worlds strengths and abilities to build our national power. That is why we are treated like red-headed step children. We shake up the status quo.

We are the brother who married the girl from the wrong side of the tracks, and then still made our good fortunes. We are the crazy aunt who has married 4 times, everyone likes us but no one wants to be the one to say so in a group . We are the uncle everyone calls to fix a backed up drain, but not the first one called to come to Sunday dinner.

SO WHAT!! We are the best thing going and we know it. We will leave Afganistan and Iraq better than we left them. We did not conquer, we liberated. We will "loan" them the money to get started, because we are also the uncle who has a little more in his wallet, who gets tapped for a "loan" when somene is down on their luck. SO WHAT!!

I'd rather the United States be the brother, or good ol' uncle or crazy aunt, than the guy who draws the blinds (FRANCE, GERMANY, RUSSIA) when he hears someone (IRAQ, N. KOREA, ETC.) beating his wife and kids.

As the maps of the world get redrawn, yet again, for the 21st century I'd much rather be the U.S. than France or Germany or any one who is against change for the better. We are the ONLY world power who has ever given more than we take and THAT will ensure that we last and win over restrictive and ruthless regimes.

10% for, 90% against, who does these polls? We heard from most news outlets that we were alone in wanting Saddam out of Iraq. It now appears that the only hold out turns out to be our buddy Chirac. His foreign minister is starting to look like the information minister from Baghdad with American planes buzzing over head. In a word foolish. The whole world knows it, and they may not tell us this out loud.

The term Old Europe is a misnomer. What we term Old Europe was the European map/govenments of the 20th century. There is no Old Europe any more than there is an "Old" anything else. The map of 20th century europe was made up after WWI by the victors, just like the map of the middle east and asia was redrawn by colonial empires in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries.

Periodically, and ever more swiftly, world powers come and world powers go. Right now we are at the top of the heap, with no equals. 75 years ago we were not considered a world power. We had no empire, we had no significant foreign lands, we had only our own hands and raw talent. We have drawn on the worlds strengths and abilities to build our national power. That is why we are treated like red-headed step children. We shake up the status quo.

We are the brother who married the girl from the wrong side of the tracks, and then still made our good fortunes. We are the crazy aunt who has married 4 times, everyone likes us but no one wants to be the one to say so in a group . We are the uncle everyone calls to fix a backed up drain, but not the first one called to come to Sunday dinner.

SO WHAT!! We are the best thing going and we know it. We will leave Afganistan and Iraq better than we left them. We did not conquer, we liberated. We will "loan" them the money to get started, because we are also the uncle who has a little more in his wallet, who gets tapped for a "loan" when somene is down on their luck. SO WHAT!!

I'd rather the United States be the brother, or good ol' uncle or crazy aunt, than the guy who draws the blinds (FRANCE, GERMANY, RUSSIA) when he hears someone (IRAQ, N. KOREA, ETC.) beating his wife and kids.

As the maps of the world get redrawn, yet again, for the 21st century I'd much rather be the U.S. than France or Germany or any one who is against change for the better. We are the ONLY world power who has ever given more than we take and THAT will ensure that we last and win over restrictive and ruthless regimes.

> 75 years ago we were not considered a world power. We had no empire, we had no significant foreign lands, we had only our own hands and raw talent.

And today, we still don't have an empire or significant foreign lands. We became a world power with our own hands and raw talent.

"Hands and raw talent", interestingly enough, is how the UK got its empire and foreign lands and became a world power.

A world power that doesn't want an empire or foreign lands confuses the Euros because they can't imagine a WP that doesn't want those things, the things that they associate with their 15 minutes.

Viola, Andy gets it! Now how do we convince the arabs in countries living lives controlled by madmen, be they religious or not! Do we set up a Radio Free Middle East??