The number of PhDs being granted to Americans is apparently declining. I found this interesting, though unsurprising:

...many doctoral programs have low completion rates. Only about 40 percent of Ph.D. candidates in the humanities finish, compared with a 75 percent completion rate for doctoral candidates in the biological sciences.

Now, I am concerned about the lack of native borns (and hence people more likely to stay here after graduation) getting graduate science and technical degrees. But who thinks that fewer English, Women's or Ethnic or Gay Studies, Communication, Journalism, Education, Psychology, or Anthropology doctorates will bring down the curtain on American civilization?

Along that note, I found this last part depressing:

The U.S. Department of Education reported that there were 6,967 degrees awarded for education in 2002, the most for any academic field...

An academic field that, in my opinion, shouldn't even exist.

"The U.S. Department of Education reported that there were 6,967 degrees awarded for education in 2002, the most for any academic field...
An academic field that, in my opinion, shouldn't even exist."

I agree, the Edumacation Field is, sorry to say, a joke, but I like to make a slightly different change: K-6 education becomes an AA degree, and 7-12 requires a 6 month "teaching certificate" attainable only after a BA or BS is granted, along with requiring that BS degreed teachers are not teaching English, nor BA's doing math or science.

P.S. I realize that some schools grant BA's in math, but you see what I'm getting at.

Bud Wrote: "I agree, the Edumacation Field is, sorry to say, a joke, but I like to make a slightly different change: K-6 education becomes an AA degree, and 7-12 requires a 6 month "teaching certificate" attainable only after a BA or BS is granted, along with requiring that BS degreed teachers are not teaching English, nor BA's doing math or science."

I'm not sure I understand your intention here. In New York State, for example, you can't teach any grade without a Bachelors degree (arts or science) for any grade. And in order to get a permanent teaching certificate, you must have a Masters degree, a teaching major, and at least 36 undergrad credits in any specialized content area you wish to teach. That means that a typical NYS high school biology teacher has 36 education credits AND 36 biological science credits (i.e. a Bachelor of Science double major degree in Biology/Education), plus a masters degree in either education OR biology.

Are you suggesting that NYS dumb down its requirements by having grade school teachers who don't even have a bachelors degree, and high school teachers who no longer need a Masters degree?

I'm not sure what state it is that you call home, but for my money I think the NYS teaching requirements are excellent. The problems I have with the field of education in my home state are the lack of accountability--enough to go around to the teachers and their unlimited tenure, the administrators and their failure to promote high standards among their teachers and students, the students with their lack of discipline, and the parents and their failure to make education a priority in their children's lives.

"The median amount of debt incurred by students seeking doctoral degrees has increased from $11,500 in 1992 to $44,743 in 2003"

Well that might have something to do with it. Note this $44K figure is just for PhDs; it's not clear whether or not that figure includes the debt incurred for the Batchelors and Masters degrees.

Oh, and I should add that from my perspective as a foreign grad student studying aerospace here in the US, I've seen many brilliant US born students who discover one of two things:

(1) That conditions in the aerospace industry are depressing, and they leave for things like management consulting and finance.

(2) That JPL / the aerospace companies are desperate for people who can get a security clearance right away, and they will pay top dollar for a US student whether or not they finish their education.

In the past 4 years, every aerospace related job opportunity advertised to Caltech students has been US nationals only. Each time I wonder who turns up to the interview, as in many cases I know all the people in the fields they need and they are all foreign.

This is likely due to not needing a PhD to do specs, test procedures, engineering change notices, test requirement documents or other aspects of "systems engineering" as practiced by large aerospace companies. The vast majority of the PhD's I've seen in aerospace now have been hustled into management or shown the gate. Most of the "technical" work done now is done by specific "craftsmen" who are absolutely forbidden to do any research (science projects).
So PhDs are no longer of any use in the mainstream aerospace community IMO.

Washington State requires a post-graduate degree to teach kindergarten.

The problem isn't 'dumbing down its requirements', its when the 'requirements' have been raised off of the scale. It just doesn't take 6 years of college to teach kindergarten.

The 'requirements' ought to be more along the lines of proficiency testing and before-and-after evaluations of the students.

But someone who managed to avoid physics, chemistry, trig and calculus in high-school, majored in art, then takes the two year teaching degree (which has no subject matter in it - just classroom-problem-resolution and sensitivity training etc.) is NOT more capable of teaching honors high-school chemistry than someone with a 'just' a PhD in chemical engineering. Or a BS.

IMNSHO the 'education degree' is a paper degree designed to limit the labor pool and thus inflate prices. It _sounds_ good, but it is an area (like medicine) where non-existant 'clinical trials' are as important as 'book learning'. And the 'book learning' isn't even focused on the subject to be taught.

My kids' school just hired a new principal. She has a Ph.D. in curriculum development and seems to think that the most important thing is to get every child a laptop. The school is now advertising how "technologically advanced" it is. Shudder.

Well education is often the brunt of many misconceptions. The persons responsible for the decline of education are the parents who are allowed to breed without taking responsibility for their children. They demand that teachers be the parent for the parent’s lack of personal responsibility. I teach in a Title One school system. We are expected to enforce rules that most parents don't understand or criticize as impinging on their student’s freedoms. Education is not only a process to pass on knowledge but it is also a socialization influence. Its like I tell the students "you like rules of the road, the highway systems, water, electric, sewer, and grocery stores. All these systems are a result of the rules of society and education. Education socializes society so that our system continues. But look what is happening to society. Parents and students refuse to accept the rule of discipline so the rules of society fall away. I am so frustrated with people who blame the teacher. We are busting our butts. If parents refuse to be part of the educational team education will fail. Look and see who is successful, overwhelmingly success is found in families that are whole and care for their children. It's parents that work with their children and educators that succeed.
Further, students come into my classes who are high school students who read on 3rd grade level. I cannot succeed in education because students hate to read. Reading is an acquired skill it takes practice. It takes discipline. Why are people loosing their interest in word? Many believe it is easer for TV to tell us what to believe, what to think than to read. TV is a powerful learning tool but it is also a curse. Why read when someone will show you pictures and tell you what it means?
Society became great when we learned written language and reading. We recorded knowledge and could access it. But we are loosing that skill for our children. Parents and teachers and administrators and government must work as a team. But it’s the parent’s responsibility first.
We have all these head start type programs why are we failing to educate. Parents, parents parents I shout. RIF