Transterrestrial Musings

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Jaw-droppingly dumb question, considering this is your actual ISP and so it shouldn't be this way -- but could it be your SMTP server requires authentication? Have you tried setting up to send your password when sending mail as well as when receiving?

Posted by McGehee at February 16, 2006 06:42 PM

Yes, this is a jaw-droppingly dumb question (sorry).

I've been sending email on this service for months, using current settings on Eudora. Only in the last few days has it decided that I could only receive, but not send, email.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 16, 2006 07:03 PM

I'm convinved that BellSouth still thinks they're "the phone company," and its idea of "customer service" is straight out of the old Lily Tomlin skit ("Next time you complain about your phone service, why don't you try using two Dixie cups with a string. We don't care. We don't have to.").

I dumped their crappy monopolist butts entirely a couple of years ago, including cutting off my voice line in favor of a (much) cheaper, more featureful cell phone.

Posted by Will Collier at February 17, 2006 06:27 AM

I might do that, if I could find a cell phone that would work in my house...

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 06:50 AM

I used to work for Verizon's DSL tech support; periodically things like that (the SMTP thing) would happen to people, and it was never entirely clear to me what would fix it -- sometimes I'd go in, delete an account in Outlook, recreate it just like it had been, and that would work (I hate Windows.) Other times, it had to be bumped up to the guys who ran the servers to try and figure out. A few people had ongoing problems (months and months and months) and it seemed like nothing would fix it -- but there were literally millions of users who had accounts for several years straight (like, from the pre-Verizon days) and never called us, or called us one time, to ask how fast our latest upgrade could make their DSL service.

For what it's worth, though, I understand that Verizon and SBC are both trying to get out of the email/web portal/content provider business, and just sell users a pipeline: Verizon has free premium Yahoo, MSN, and AOL subscriptions available to DSL customers, and (it seems to me) tries hard to get customers to choose those portals (which means they don't get Verizon email addresses.) I think SBC has something similar going on; BellSouth doesn't compete in my area so I'm not sure about them.

(by the by, your filter doesn't like my primary email address or URL... I thought you had something against Star Trek, but it might have something to do with a spammy looking portion of one word, which makes me slightly less sad.)

Posted by Sarah at February 17, 2006 06:55 AM

You may want to check to see if your IP address is listed at http://www.dnsstuff.com/ under spam blacklists: many servers will deny you outgoing smtp access if you are. If you've had a virus recently, you could very well show up on those lists, and none of them will retest you automatically even if you've cured the virus. IF this turns out to be the case Bell South should have been able to tell you so immediately.

Posted by Bo at February 17, 2006 06:59 AM

I run a mail server (smtp) for one of my clients.
A common problem for their environment is that they IP addresses on their PC's change and the server allows e-mail to be sent only from a specific range of IP addresses.
(We set it up this way in order to prevent having an 'open relay' that spammers could use. The downside is that when their office cable modem gets a new base IP, all of the IP's in their office get a new base IP. They all have accounts and can get their mail, they just can't send. Whenever I get a call with this problem description from them, I have them connect to their cable modem, tell me the new IP, then I connect to their server and modify the "allowed" ip addresses.)

I suspect your ISP has added something to prevent spamming and the result is that you are out-of-the-loop on that.

Good luck.

Posted by _Jon at February 17, 2006 07:01 AM

I get my DSL service through BellSouth. This month I got my bill and found that they decided to stop billing in arrears and bill me a month ahead. I got billed for two months of service on one bill with no warning. Just not professional.

Posted by Whitney at February 17, 2006 07:11 AM

Rand, you might try one of these:

http://www.cidcocom.com/merge/index.html

... they apparently have the option to add an additional antenna, which could help if you have weak service at your house.

We use an old CellSocket base station, similar product, allows you to route calls through all your old wired phones through a cell phone, but I believe the company that made them went out of business a while back.

Posted by Will Collier at February 17, 2006 07:55 AM

About the receiving but not sending email thing, could you be running an antivirus program configured to scan outgoing mail? I've seen this setup break mail services any number of times.

Posted by Cheng-Jih Chen at February 17, 2006 08:12 AM

Bellsouth has been switching to Port 25 filtering. They will only allow traffic on port 25 that goes to thier mail server mail.bellsouth.net. If you are using another mail server as your SMTP and want to access it using bellwouth's netowrk you have to get another port opened on the server other than 25.

Posted by Leon Evans at February 17, 2006 09:43 AM

I am using mail.bellsouth.net.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 09:48 AM

SMTP is a standard so this should work even if the server isn't Exchange.

http://support DOT microsoft DOT com/kb/q153119/

Posted by Rob Read at February 17, 2006 09:59 AM

At my current ISP, the incoming and outgoing servers have different names. At my previous ISP the names were the same. Maybe they did some reconfiguring.

Posted by David R. Block at February 17, 2006 10:38 AM

Rand,

I agree with many of the posts that it is not only possible, but likely, that bellsouth has made changes to their settings without your knowledge. The fact that you have been able to access their outgoing mail server with the same settings for months, but now cannot, does not mean they haven't changed anything. Quite the contrary, that is one very good indicator that something has indeed changed on their side.

Throughout these postings, you have not indicated whether you have enabled and input authentication data for your outgoing mail settings. Reviewing Bell South's mail settings on their site:

http://tinyurl.com/d4rlu

at the very bottom (of their entourage settings for the mac) they show that indeed one is supposed to use authentication on the outgoing server. If you do not have this set to your bell south id and password, you definitely will not be able to send any mail out.

Good Luck!

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 11:26 AM

I do now, and have always authenticated for both popd and smtp.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 11:31 AM

As a test to rule out some sort of problem with Eudora, I would suggest temporarily trying to use another email program (Thunderbird would be excellent), and see if there are any problems sending email via bell south that way.

Also, you mention that you are able to send mail via your employer's MS Exchange server. Just for purposes of clarification, are you connected to the internet via a work network and trying to use bell south's outgoing server? Or are you connected directly to bell south?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 12:24 PM

I'm connected directly to Bellsouth. I use my employee email on the Exchange server via the web.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 12:30 PM

Also, I've tried it with both Thunderbird, and Evolution, and get the same error message: "not allowed to relay mail to whateverdomain.com"

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 12:38 PM

As a test, are you able to send just yourself mail (at your bellsouth domain)?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:13 PM

clarification on above: to your whatever@bellsouth.net email address

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:16 PM

Oh, that's a good test.

Let's see...

Yup. That I can do. It just won't send mail to any other domain.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 01:18 PM

OK - it is definetly a settings issue somewhere then. Do you have a different address other than your @bellsouth.net domain as your return address?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:26 PM

My usual return address is set as simberg@interglobal.org (has been for many years). I don't normally use the bellsouth address, except as a place to forward all my other mail to.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 01:32 PM

What is a bit unusual here is that this sort of error (including being able to send just to your own email domain) typically results from someone trying to access, say, bellsouth.net servers while connected to another company's server (aol, earthlink, etc). Since we have ruled that out (ie you are connected to Bell South directly), and have confirmed it is not a software issue, then some setting definitely has to be tripping up their server. (And since you previously say you were able to access with the current settings with no problem previously, it sounds like some security configuration change on their end).

PS - just so no one thinks otherwise: no I do not work for Bell South. Eons ago, I used to do tech support for Mindspring/Earthlink, so am familiar with some of the types of problems which can arise.

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:34 PM

ok - try temporarily changing the return address to your whatever@bellsouth.net and see what happens.

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:35 PM

oh - and make sure you dont have any other mail waiting to go out from before the change in return address (otherwise it will block the new mail)

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:38 PM

Also, do you have a static or dynamic IP address with bell south?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:42 PM

Nope. That doesn't help. Still getting an error from server: 550 relaying mail to whatever.com not allowed.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 01:42 PM

Static.

Posted by at February 17, 2006 01:46 PM

I assume this error message is coming up as a windows error message box, rather than as a returned message with this error, correct? If I am wrong, and it is coming back as a returned message, would you post the header/all error info (or if you prefer, send it to my email address for privacy - via gmail or your MS Exchange server, etc).

I've been doing a little research and it looks like you are not the only one who has had similar problems with bellsouth recently (end of december onwards)

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 01:53 PM

It's actually a message box in Eudora, but it says that it's relaying a message from the server, as I've quoted above. No headers or other info.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 02:01 PM

As bad as this is, the good part is all the help and suggestions. Rather than just having your pet and co-workers to gripe to, the 'net really helps. Even if it doesn't solve your problem, it's gotta feel good to get all the suggestions....

Posted by _Jon at February 17, 2006 02:02 PM

I didn't see this in your post, so I'll ask: have you actually been able to reach a live Bell South techie? If so, what did they say about the issue?

Also, do you have a gmail or any other (non-work) email accounts besides those with bell south?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 02:09 PM

BTW - which version of Eudora is this? Eudora 6 apparently has something called an 'SMTP Relay Personality' which allows you to get around this stuff (or which, if it is set, might actually be causing the problems).

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 02:24 PM

No, trying to deal with Bellsouth is a pain, because you always have to start in Bangalore, and the first thing they make you do is reboot your computer.

I probably still have an Earthlink (or actually, a netcom) account.

I (think) that I can also use my bellsouth account to send mail, as long as I don't do it SMPT, by using their web interface, which sucks.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 02:24 PM

Eudora is version 6.0.0.22 light mode. But it seems to be a problem with any SMPT client.

Hmmmm...

[Switching machines]

Evolution seems to let me send. So it's a Eudora (and Tbird, or perhaps a Windows) problem.

Interesting.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 02:30 PM

OK - well, there is a chance (somewhat good one at this point) that there is a problem with their system recognizing either your account or ip address correctly. So it might have to be reset. As such, calling them is probably a very good idea, despite the hurdles you will have to go through. My suggestion - immediately ask for a supervisor, and be very insistent about that. Don't let them try to walk you through the basics. They will eventually relent and connect you with someone higher up.

However, if you do have an alternate account (netcom - or better - gmail) I can probably set those up as your outgoing smtp server and thus bypass the bell south problem while still allowing you to use your Eudora etc. (I can't swear to the netcom, but I do it myself with gmail). Of course, you are paying for Bell South, so that is simply a work around you should not have to put up with for long.

Also, am I correct in assuming that your bellsouth.net account allows you to have more than one bellsouth.net email address? If so, I would suggest two things - one definite, one up to you:

First - create a new bellsouth email address for testing, then - not in eudora, but in a program with no other accounts - set up the email program with that new address, and see if it will send.

Second - if you feel comfortable enough, give me that test address info and let me play with it some on my side to see if I can get it to work if it does not work on your side. Since it is a test address, you can delete it the next day, so you don't have to worry about it or me. But, as I said, this part is up to you.

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 02:48 PM

last was posted before getting your most recent post.

In windows network settings, is there any difference between the two machines?

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 02:50 PM

This last indicates it is definitely a problem on your end with settings somewhhere. Good to know, but harder to address. And, since the problem occurs across multiple programs, it would appear to be a problem with some specific windows setting (unless there is some setting that is different in evolution on the working system compared to the non-working system)

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 02:54 PM

In windows network settings, is there any difference between the two machines?

Yes. One of them isn't Windows. ;-)

The Fedora box seems to be able to send fine.

Maybe I do have to do a reboot of my Windows machine. I hate when that happens...

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 03:08 PM

Well, then the problem is likely in the network settings somewhere on the windows machine (if the reboot doesn't help - heh). The fact that you are using MS Exchange indicates to me that there are extras in the network settings which might be 'confusing' the bell south smtp servers into thinking you are not on the bell south network.

In the meantime, if you want that help setting up temp smtp settings, just let me know. And no matter what, let us know how things are going.

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 03:19 PM

I may have miswritten--I don't really use Microsoft Exchange. I just go to a secure web site where I can check and send work-related email.

Posted by Rand Simberg at February 17, 2006 03:56 PM

It is still possible that there are odd settings in the network settings causing the problems. The fact that the problem affects more than one email program indicates it is not program specific. And since we have supposedly determined it is not a settings error, nor a problem on Bell South's side, it definitely points to something in the network settings causing the difficulties.

Did you set up your system yourself, or is there someone you can contact for help? I ask because I run on an apple and don't have access to xp, so it would be hard for me to diagnose a windows settings issue, or even walk through the settings with you.

One question, do you use some sort of router/firewall which might interfere with your windows system but which your fedora system bypasses?

Anyway, as I said, if you still have problems and want some help setting up gmail or the like as a substitute smtp server instead of bell south, then let me know.

Posted by Brian L Smith at February 17, 2006 04:41 PM

My ISP gives me seven "free" EMail address.

I don't use them. Nor did I use the ones from my previous ISP: note that I did not, then, have to go through problems of notifying EMail newsletter accounts, my pharmacy, or others when I switched.

I use Yahoo for broadcasting my address, it does pretty good with spam. I use Excite for some things. And for the snobs who will delete mail from "free" addresses without processing, I have an account at Budweiser - there are several places that will let you use their corporate address: or http://www.tempinbox.com/english/.

Posted by John Anderson at February 17, 2006 09:43 PM

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