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« "The Prerequisite Of All Criticism" | Main | Back To Normal? »

The Bottom Of The Slippery Slope

Here's where a misguided multiculturalism and moral relativism leads--the rape of the unveiled women:

As far as the Western feminists are concerned, they seem to be hovering in other dimensions, in absolute arrogance, learned from ethnologues like Claude Lévy-Strauss. For them, freedom is that each "culture" may it be as inhuman as can be, is entitled to prosper even on our soil, and the next act in this surrealistic piece of stage play is the unlimited understanding the Norwegian Professor Ms. Unni Wikan shows for Muslims raping Western women: Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes, as they are not dressing and behaving according to Muslim understanding. The Norwegian women, in her view, are to realize that they live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it, as Mark Steyn reported already in 2002...

...A friend of mine is a retired chief of police, who used to be in charge of the security of a major city in the south of France. He reported to me that his men had to face an average of 10 rapes a week, 80% made by Muslim young men. 30% being what we call, in French, a “ tournante “, meaning that the victim is being raped by an entire gang, one after the other, often during an entire night. My friend reports that, in many cases, he was able to locate and arrest the rapists, often very young ones, and, as part of the investigation, call the families. He was astonished that, in most cases, the parents not only would back up their rapist children, but also would not even understand why they would be arrested. There is an instant shift in the notion of good and evil as a major component of culture. The only evil those parents would see, genuinely, is the temptation that the male children had to face. Since in most cases the victims were not Muslims, the parents’ answer and rejection was even more genuine: how could their boys be guilty of anything, when normally answering to a provocation by occidental women, known for their unacceptable behavior?

...Inside the Palestinian territories, I collected a lot of different stories involving raping of an innocent girl who later on was slaughtered by her own father or cousin, because she had lost her virginity.

This example to say that, in Muslim culture, values exist, but the line between good and evil is drawn somewhere else, far away from our understanding. Protecting women against themselves is considered a good action, even if this includes death penalty, as long as family's honor - which is paramount - is saved.

When Dr Eussner adds to my previous comments that religion is only half of the explanation, and that we mustn't forget the political aims, I could not agree more. Although I'd like to emphasize that in the Muslim world, religion and politics is one single thing. There is no separation between powers in any Muslim society and the ideal Muslim society accepts the Shari'ah (Muslim law, written in the Koran ) as the basis for any civil society, including its rules of punishment.

In addition, I can see in any raping of a non-Muslim woman by a Muslim male as a racist action, and it is high time for us to acknowledge and condemn it. The level of contempt towards non-Muslim women is the reflection of the level of hatred towards the society which creates equality between men and women. We all know that there is a sexual component in any form of racism. I personally see primitive racism as the expression of a fear connected to the unconscious protection of the genes among the males. Raping women belonging to another cultural, religious group or race is an act of male domination not only against the woman herself, but against the entire group in which she belongs.

It's hard to call this a clash of civilizations, because I don't want to dignify such thinking with the word "civilized." But it's a clash of cultures, and they're clearly incompatible. I don't know how this will end, but it won't be pretty.

Posted by Rand Simberg at March 07, 2006 10:17 AM

Comments

"This example to say that, in Muslim culture, values exist, but the line between good and evil is drawn somewhere else, far away from our understanding."

Values exist, eh? But not far away from my understanding. It's just that I have no more interest in, or respect for, the values of this "culture", than I do the values of hyenas or termites.

If the Euros begin mass deportations, I will be clapping and cheering.

Posted by Mike James at March 7, 2006 11:03 AM

It's hard to call it a clash of civilizations when we apparently aren't even willing to fight.

Posted by NukemHill at March 7, 2006 11:14 AM

When is it the turn of the newly arrived to begin to understand the fact that they have joined another culture. Never would be the answer, if the movement is east to west.

I am not a racist, a biggot or a xenophobe, however western countries better stop this stuff quickly or they will certainly die from not trying.

Posted by Steve at March 7, 2006 11:29 AM

I bet this would happen less if there was a constitutionally guaranteed right to arms. I know if someone did this to my daughter (and the government ignored it), they would die. In the end, if your government doesn't protect you, and denies you the right to protect yourself, what do you do?

Posted by David Summers at March 7, 2006 11:33 AM

Given ethic europeans are a sharply declining fraction of Europes population (due to very low birth rates) and mid east Immigrants and their offspring (many with extream anti western views even by mideast standards) are a rapidly increasing fraction; the future in Europe could be very very bad. I.E. a democracy where the values are voted toward such extreams.

Posted by Kelly Starks at March 7, 2006 12:07 PM

Partly it's a question of muslim religious law

To give an idea of just how detailed the hadiths are on specifying
the lives of muslims, I'll quote Fatimah extensively on the subject
of sex slaves. But to summarize, the hadiths describe at length
not only how one goes about getting a sex slave but how one has
sexual intercourse with a slave. Any non-muslim female can be
made into a sex slave. A sex slave can be raped, beaten, and sold,
without penalty. Since hadiths are the word of Allah, questioning
or doubting them is an apostatic act and subject to the death penalty.

The big question for muslims about sex slaves seems to be whether
or not children result. Good muslims aren't supposed to have
children with slaves, but if it does happen then that was Allah's
will and the rules change.

Here's Fatimah. All the rest is quote.
(http://www.secularislam.net/archives/2003_04.html)

Hadiths and Rulings About Slavegirls:

Umm Walad
Malik's Muwatta (Book of Maliki Law), Book 38, Number 38.5.6:

Malik related to me from Nafi from Abdullah ibn Umar that Umar ibn
al-Khattab said, "If a slave-girl gives birth to a child by her master,
he must not sell her, give her away, or bequeath her. He enjoys her
and when he dies she is free ."

Slavegirls And Coitus Interruptus

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus
interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and
he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice,
"There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence,
till the Day of Resurrection."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 506:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured
some females and intended to have sexual relations with them without
impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interruptus.
The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah
has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection."
Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul
is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him
and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said,
"We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq
and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired
women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus
interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said,
'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who
is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better
for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection)
is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3383:

Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who
is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse
with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl,
if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The
person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl
has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed
for her would come to her.

Malik's Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.100:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Humayd ibn Qays al-Makki that
a man called Dhafif said that Ibn Abbas was asked about coitus interruptus.
He called a slave-girl of his and said, "Tell them." She was embarrassed.
He said, "It is alright, and I do it myself."

Malik said, "A man does not practise coitus interruptus with a free
woman unless she gives her permission. There is no harm in practising
coitus interruptus with a slave-girl without her permission. Someone
who has someone else's slave-girl as a wife, does not practise coitus
interruptus with her unless her people give him permission."

Malik's Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.99:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Damra ibn Said al-Mazini from al-Hajjaj
ibn Amr ibn Ghaziya that he was sitting with Zayd ibn Thabit when
Ibn Fahd came to him. He was from the Yemen. He said, "Abu Said! I have
slave-girls. None of the wives in my keep are more pleasing to me than
them, and not all of them please me so much that I want a child by them,
shall I then practise coitus interruptus?" Zayd ibn Thabit said, "Give
an opinion, Hajjaj!" "I said, 'May Allah forgive you! We sit with you
in order to learn from you!' He said, 'Give an opinion! 'I said, 'She
is your field, if you wish, water it, and if you wish, leave it thirsty.
I heard that from Zayd.' Zayd said, 'He has spoken the truth.' "

Don't Worry If The Slave Women You Captured Are Married Or Not

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3432:

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that at the
Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army
to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome
them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger
(may peace te upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with
captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah,
Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except
those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i.e. they were lawful
for them when their 'Idda period came to an end) [which is about a month --ed. note].

What To Do With A Slavegirl Who Keeps Screwing Around

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 731:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:

The Prophet said, "If a slave-girl (Ama) commits illegal sexual
intercourse, scourge her; if she does it again, scourge her again;
if she repeats it, scourge her again." The narrator added that on the
third or the fourth offence, the Prophet said, "Sell her even for
a hair rope."

The Exemplary Example of 'Ali, The Prophet's Cousin and Son-In-Law

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 637:

Narrated Buraida:

The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and
I hated Ali, and 'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with
a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this
(i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He
said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you
hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus."

Slaves As Possessions

Malik's Muwatta, Book 31, Number 31.5.6:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar would
say, "A man should not have intercourse with a slave girl except one
whom, if he wished, he could sell, if he wished, he could give away,
if he wished, he could keep, if he wished, he could do with her what
he wanted ."

Malik said that a man who bought a slave-girl on condition that he did
not sell her, give her away, or do something of that nature, was not
to have intercourse with her. That was because he was not permitted
to sell her or to give her away, so if he did not own that from her,
he did not have complete ownership of her because an exception had
been made concerning her by the hand of someone else. If that sort
of condition entered into it, it was a messy situation, and the sale
was not recommended.

Women Not Treated As Sex Objects In Islam, My A**!

Book 31, Number 31.4.4:

...
Malik said, "The generally agreed upon way of doing things among us
is that if a man returns a slave girl in whom he has found a defect
and he has already had intercourse with her, he must pay what he has
reduced of her price if she was a virgin. If she was not a virgin,
there is nothing against his having had intercourse with her because
he had charge of her."
...
Malik spoke about a situation where a slave-girl was bartered for two
other slave-girls and then one of the slave-girls was found to have
a defect for which she could be returned. He said, "The slave-girl
worth two other slave-girls is valued for her price. Then the other
two slave-girls are valued, ignoring the defect which the one of them
has. Then the price of the slave-girl sold for two slave-girls is
divided between them according to their prices so that the proportion
of each of them in her price is arrived at - to the higher priced one
according to her higher price, and to the other according to her value.
Then one looks at the one with the defect, and the buyer is refunded
according to the amount her share is affected by the defect, be it
little or great. The price of the two slave-girls is based on their
market value on the day that they were bought."

Such A Happy Family

Malik's Muwatta, Book 41, Number 41.6.20:

Malik related to me from Rabia ibn Abi Abd ar-Rahman that Umar ibn
al-Khattab spoke about a man who went out with his wife's slave-girl
on a journey and had intercourse with her and then the wife became
jealous and mentioned that to Umar ibn al-Khattab. Umar questioned
him about it. He said, "She gave her to me." Umar said, "Bring me
a clear proof or I will stone you." Rabia added, "The wife confessed
that she had given her to him."

Malik's Muwatta, Book 30, Number 30.2.13: (note: according to Shari'ah,
babies who suckle from the same woman are considered to be related
and thus not suitable marriage partners):

Yahya related to me from Malik that Abdullah ibn Dinar said, "A man
came to Abdullah ibn Umar when I was with him at the place where
judgments were given and asked him about the suckling of an older
person. Abdullah ibn Umar replied, 'A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab
and said, 'I have a slave-girl and I used to have intercourse with her.
My wife went to her and suckled her. When I went to the girl, my wife
told me to watch out, because she had suckled her!' Umar told him to
beat his wife and to go to his slave-girl because kinship by suckling
was only by the suckling of the young.' "

Posted by Mark at March 7, 2006 12:21 PM

Anyway, I think this is more than enough to get the gist...

Arguably, raping a non-muslim is in a sense an act of worship of God.

According to Fatimah there seems to be little room for changing the
hadiths. All hadiths are the word of God. Criticizing them
is an apostalic act and subject to the death penalty. Nor are they
ancient history that people ignore. Even in her 'moderate' muslim
community she could always find plenty of people that rationalized,
justified, and believed in all the hadith, no matter how dubious,
bizarre or even demonic a specific hadith ruling might appear to be.

I am unable to access Fatimah's site today.

Posted by Mark at March 7, 2006 12:25 PM

Well, based on the supposed saying of "A woman for boys, a boy for please, and for exctacy a goat", mixed in with the fact that muslims love to bang "infidels" no matter how much they fight, or bleate, proves that muslims MUST have an unnatural attraction towards animals. Either that, or they, themselves, at least in this instance are the animals.

You won't ever catch me appologizing for islam, and you won't find me appologizing to a follower of islam. Screw them, They are happy to screw those we care about.

Posted by wickedpinto at March 7, 2006 12:54 PM

I have always said this will end badly. We can live with them, but they cannot live with us.

The only variable that remains to discover is exactly how many people are going to die in the resolution.

Posted by V-Man at March 7, 2006 02:43 PM

The only variable to be determined, V-man, is how best to irradicate these ass-wipes from the planet.

Posted by Kurt at March 7, 2006 03:58 PM

The best answer to this was given in an indirect way by a British officer in the days of the Raj. The Brits at the time were trying to stamp out the practice of suttee, that of throwing a man's widow onto his funeral pyre with him.

A Brahmin priest protested that this was part of their culture. The answer of the officer was something like: "Understood. And part of our culture is that when someone commits such an act we hang him by the neck until he is dead."

The point was taken.

Posted by Ian Campbell at March 7, 2006 05:13 PM

"...part of our culture is that when someone commits such an act we hang him by the neck until he is dead." Were it still true.

Civilized people often forget how to deal with the uncivilized because it is abhorent to us.

We might consider this essay...

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/essays/35/

...and it's conclusion...

"It is time to cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war. Otherwise, this in truth will be a war without end."

Posted by ken anthony at March 8, 2006 01:55 AM

So, let's have a reality based TV gameshow where we take the governments of each major muslim city. Then, have them go through various challenges to show how well they can adapt at becoming sane, peaceful, democratic, and trustworthy human beings. The loser at the end of the show gets their city bombed to high holy hell with the biggest, dirtiest nukes we can find.

The catch phrase can be:
"I'm sorry, you've been voted off the planet"

Posted by Josh Reiter at March 8, 2006 01:02 PM

Oh geeze, you're going to condemn an entire culture because of the actions of a few hooligans? Every culture has its bad points and ours is certainly no exception. The way people talk here of bombing Muslims with the biggest, dirtiest nukes they can find, who can blame Iran for feeling paranoid and wanting nukes with which to defend itself against sociopathic aggressors like GWB?

Posted by X at March 9, 2006 05:06 PM

X, did it occur to you that Josh Reiter might be, (with forgiveness begged from Mr. Reiter), joshing a little bit? That he might be engaged in a little hyperbole, or a little sarcasm?

With regards to the rest of your comment, I don't think I am the only one becoming weary with the 'few bad apples' argument. 45 dead and counting over squiggles of ink on paper convinces me that they aren't folks just like us, that all men are not brothers under the skin, and that their so-called 'civilisation' is inferior to ours.

As annoying and feckless as some European governments have been in the past, I hate seeing what's happening to Europe. I won't like seeing the font of our culture die and be taken over by Muslims. It is happening right now, which is sad, because too many of them accept stupid brutality as just another lifestyle choice.

Yeah, I'll condemn them. They are not as good as we are, and don't deserve the many concessions we make to them. If we allow them to live amongst us, a precious gift indeed, they must be taught manners, whether the lesson be hard or easy.

Posted by Mike James at March 9, 2006 06:18 PM


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