Rich Lowry:

I believed, with a lot of other conservatives, that the Clintons were really good at destroying people. Judging from the last three weeks, they are really bad at destroying people. Maybe all those people they destroyed in the 1990's were just easily destroyed? This is very disorienting...

I think that there are several factors here. First, when they were successfully destroying people, they had political power, either as Arkansas governor, or as co-president. I don't think that being an ex-President and senator give them as much clout or ability to hurt their enemies. Also, most people weren't aware of their record in that regard in the 80s and 90s. Now, it's their most famous feature. Now, when they attempt to smear someone (as they did with Obama), the press calls them on it, instead of simply being stenographers for the smear. Of course, it helps a lot that the people they're trying to destroy are fellow Democrats, so even those in the media who want to help them are conflicted in a way they wouldn't be in the general election.

And, finally, I think that a lot of their former allies and toadies are tired of them, had enough, and starting to turn on them (watch this trend accelerate once people decide that she's not "inevitable" and they don't have to worry about being on the wrong end of the wrath of another president Clinton). Without the help of all these others, they are more powerless as well.

Plus, is Hillary Ed Muskie?

I think it's easier to destroy people when the media in on your side. With Obama and others lately that is not the case and so the same attempts are brought to light andlook petty or ham-fisted.

I'd say it's probably a bit early to conclude that the Clintons are now toothless with regard to the politics of personal destruction. What is really interesting is to consider what they might do if Obama actually wins the nomination. Do they support him in a show of solidarity with fellow Democrats? Do they go hom quietly and say nothing? Or do they do the quintessentially Clintonian thing: continue trying to destroy him in a self-serving act of vengeance?

If Obama is the nominee, I expect that the attempts to destroy him by insinuation and false claims will far exceed anything the Clinton camp has done so far.

We've not seen anything much yet other than the mass e-mails that claim Obam is a Muslim and a secret AQ agent. But we've seen how the Republican smear machine works in the past and I don't expect much to change this time around.

If Obama is the nominee I hope everyone will be as agitated when the lying starts. Or else one would have to believe that the agitation is quite selectively and hypocritically focused on the Clintons.

"If Obama is the nominee, I expect that the attempts to destroy him by insinuation and false claims will far exceed anything the Clinton camp has done so far."

I agree Offside, the Clintons will salt the earth if he gets the nomination and use every trick in the book to bring him down.

Rush suggested her and Bloomberg would run a third party campaign.

But we've seen how the Republican smear machine works in the past and I don't expect much to change this time around.

Of course, what many Democrats consider as a smear is telling the truth about a Democrat's record (e.g. John Kerry). Oh, the horror of it all.

The Republican smear machine?

They don't use the awful truth about the left well or often enough. They hardly if ever confront the Dems when they are lied about, They never call them on typical DNC backed questions from the MSM.

"...and a final question Senator (enter Republican name here), are you still beating your wife and sleeping with your daughter, employing illegal aliens or taking bribes, selling secrets to the Chicoms or have you stopped that?"

How can there be a smear machine when they not only ignore the jab, but fail to point out the idiocy of the question or the seriousness of the lies?

The Republican smear machine? It is to laugh.

Steve,

I've listened to Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin etc. long enough to say that what I often hear on these programs is more than simply smearing. The word lies is more applicable.

I can't believe you can think this isn't the Republican smear machine at work. If you really believe what you said, please make a note of it, and we can refer back to this if Obama is the nominee. Deal?

It's already gathering shape:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/smearing-obama.html#more

I've listened to Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin etc. long enough to say that what I often hear on these programs is more than simply smearing. The word lies is more applicable.

Well, then surely you'll provide us with an example or two? And there's nothing similar coming from Air America?

Rand, you're right. The 10 or 20 people who listen to Air America are probably being lied to as well.

How's this for an example:

"You know, the Gore-leone crime family is now the number one crime family in the world, when you think about it. He's about to pull off the biggest scam in the history of the world. It's bigger than any bank heist, bigger than any drug deal. It's bigger than any counterfeiting scheme, and he's doing it all nice and natural with a little help from the socialist perverts in Norway, who gave him a Nobel Prize. Why do I call them socialist perverts? Answer: because they are. By and large, 90 percent of the people on the Nobel Committee are into child por nography and molestation, according to the latest scientific studies,"

- conservative media darling, Michael Savage.

You can't seriously be asking the question, but just since you asked, there's an example right there. Of course you may not think it's a lie or a smear.

Last I read, Gore was off in Bali telling the world that we needed to metaphorically rend our clothes and dress in sackcloth for our faults against Gaia. Meanwhile, the single biggest polluting country on the planet got a free pass.

And no, I don't listen to those radio guys.

conservative media darling, Michael Savage.

Michael Savage is a loon, even by "conservative" standards.

So, you're admitting that you can't come up with an actual example from Rush or Hannity? Why am I not surprised...?

Even if he is a loon (I have no opinion on that; I've barely heard his name before) the quote at least to me reads as fairly obvious intentional hyperbole as a rhetorical technique. Such exaggerations to make a point aren't exactly uncommon regardless of political affiliation.

Sure if he actually believes there were any such "latest scientific studies" he's running short on braincells but I wouldn't assume so or take the word of someone antipathetic to him on it.

Looking at the last half century of prize winners his main point is correct either way. Lots of Norwegians (like me) would agree, possibly even a majority of Norwegians.

Odd that the only example is actaully taking a shot at what Gore is doing openly. His stated policy. It disputes the policy and the reason for the policy but tha'ts hardly inuendo and seems to be fair game if you ask me. Certainly in league with suggesting the Bush family oil connections influence their own policy choices.

If that's the best example you can come up with you really don't have much of a case.

The main jist of Savage's rant is true, that Gore is pulling off a massive scientific fraud.

The phrase "Republican smear" really irks me. I'm the guy who invented the phrase Vast Right Wing Complacency. When they won majority in Congress, they ran the show for maybe one year. Then the Democrats beat them in the PR game. After that they completely gave up on reform - even with a Republican president.

Those spineless weasels let the Dems obstruct judicial appointments. They failed to stand up to Bush's policy to spend money like a drunken teenager in Cancun on Spring Break with the parents' credit cards. (Drunken sailors use their own money.) We got adequate war legislation, a modest tax cut (fueling increasing tax revenues), and two decent Supreme Court justices, but not much beyond that.

I'm sick and tired of wimp Republicans. They'll stand up to al-Qaeda more than they'll stand up to Democrats. Cowards.