Transterrestrial Musings

Comments

"full of bible bashers" - it's an easy target. I don't know any myself but that's the NW for you.

"and ruled to a dangerous extent by trashy television, superstition and religious bigotry"

Hmmm.... well one out of 3 ain't bad. I'll give them the trashy TV - especially now the writer's strike is obviously biting.

"a place lacking in respect for evidence based knowledge." - Sounds like he has that one bang to rights gov'nor and no mistake. Don't you often complain about that sort of thing yourself Rand? Especially from the "Main Stream Media".

Day to day I come across stuff that makes me stop and wonder about America, especially involving the _general_ grasp of geography or world history or tone deafness towards non-US accents that's utterly amazing. For the record, I am not now, and have never been an Australian.

Posted by Dave at January 12, 2008 03:31 PM

"a place lacking in respect for evidence based knowledge." - Sounds like he has that one bang to rights gov'nor and no mistake.

Find me a country that's not like that, and get back to me.

Posted by Rand Simberg at January 12, 2008 03:45 PM

Dave wrote:
"For the record, I am not now, and have never been an Australian."

Hehe, you're a closet kangaroo? ^_^

And Rand I suspect you already know but such a country would be a country of one (by the way you've accidentally brought up one of the notions behind my choice of alias).

Posted by Habitat Hermit at January 12, 2008 03:56 PM

Find me a country that's not like that, and get back to me.

Heh. Alright, it's a fair cop :)

Although Swedish TV looks pretty serious when I channel hop in Swedish hotels (ignoring the more "specialist" premium channels they tend to have for free.)

Germany, France and Italy all seem to have a delight in big format game shows and entertainment shows which include naked women which I haven't quite fathomed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutti_Frutti_(German_TV_show)_

Seriously weird show.

Posted by Dave at January 12, 2008 05:02 PM

I've lived in America - albeit briefly, and as a guest. American TV is utter trash - even its technical standards are poor (Never The Same Color) and its so-called comedy has punchlines telegraphed 5 minutes in advance, and a constantly-running laugh track to compensate for it, and at least one car chase, whether relevant or not, is compulsory in "action" TV programmes and Hollywood movies.

America is the only Western country where fundamentalist religion is any sort of political force at all - Bush was elected largely because of that force, and Huckabee might get elected in the same way.

Superstition - didn't Reagan, otherwise one of the best Presidents America ever had, have an astrologer on his staff? And see above.

Posted by Fletcher Christian at January 12, 2008 05:04 PM

Oh come on, Fletcher you are spouting again.

Posted by Offside at January 12, 2008 05:31 PM

And from what I see on BBC America I would imagine that all people in Britain wished they were either an alien, undead, dragon hunter, time traveler, or paranormal investigator.

Although, I will give the Brits a nod on Top Gear. As far as automotive television goes, Top Gear is light years ahead of anything here in the States.

Posted by Josh Reiter at January 12, 2008 06:07 PM

Fletcher,

I don't think there has been an major American sitcom filmed with a laugh track since MASH.

You should consider the rest of your information equally up-to-date.

Posted by Mike Puckett at January 12, 2008 06:19 PM

I've noticed that my fellow Canadians love to criticize the US, but are the first to defend the US when it's criticized by eurotrash.

Posted by Roger Strong at January 12, 2008 06:27 PM

That's rich, some Brits calling us "Bible bashers."

(Channeling Dana Carvey's "Church Lady") I wonder where that Bible bashing got its start? Hmmm, didn't come from the Vatican. Didn't come from Germany or Switzerland either. Do you think it had something to do with (cue audio reverb) OLIVER CROMWELL!

Posted by Paul Milenkovic at January 12, 2008 06:45 PM

I've lived in America - albeit briefly, and as a guest. American TV is utter trash -

LOL. You mean it doesn't live up to the refined British standards of "Benny Hill"???

even its technical standards are poor (Never The Same Color)

You've never heard of digital television, I take it?

and its so-called comedy has punchlines telegraphed 5 minutes in advance, and a constantly-running laugh track to compensate for it,

You mean all those so-called comedies like "Three's Company," "Coupling," "Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares," etc., that are copied from the BBC?

We also have PBS and BBC America where folks can see imports like "Benny Hill" in their original glory. So, what is your complaint, exactly?

America is the only Western country where fundamentalist religion is any sort of political force at all

You dislike America because people who don't share your religious views are allowed to vote? There's a name for that, Fletcher.

Posted by Edward Wright at January 12, 2008 06:58 PM

I don't think there has been an major American sitcom filmed with a laugh track since MASH.

I'd like to believe that's true, but it strains my credulity. Perhaps it depends on what you mean by "major"?

Posted by Rand Simberg at January 12, 2008 08:18 PM

Consistantly rating in the top ten for more than two years.

Shows like Seinfeld and Friends used the responses of real people.

Posted by Mike Puckett at January 12, 2008 08:40 PM

I don't think there has been an major American sitcom filmed with a laugh track since MASH.

At least not without a canned laughter track, but I still think that "recorded in front of a live audience" (presumably of performing seals) still counts as a form of laugh track - in which case it's most of them. MASH was shown on BBC2 without the laugh track. I was in the weird position of talking to Alan Alda about that a few months ago and he hated the laugh stuff too.

LOL. You mean it doesn't live up to the refined British standards of "Benny Hill"???

Benny Hill is oddly popular in the US, or at least gets referred to more by people here than in the UK. How about Monty Python then? Same era.

You've never heard of digital television, I take it?

Yes, they have that too in the UK, of course my SD broadcasts on my PAL LCD flat panel looked much better than the SD stuff I still get over digital cable via NTSC. NTSC is a crap TV standard, the penalty of being an early mover.

The HD stuff is good but they have that in the UK too.

You mean all those so-called comedies like "Three's Company," "Coupling," "Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares," etc., that are copied from the BBC?

Making an inferior copy isn't the problem of the BBC or the British (actually only Coupling is a BBC production, Ramsey's stuff and "Man About The House" were all from commercial TV, as was Benny Hill.)

Coupling is hysterical IMO, Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares are excellent, but I can't watch the US version.

There's a fair amount of TV like Top Gear. Clarkson's chat show springs to mind.

Posted by Dave at January 12, 2008 10:11 PM

Benny Hill? Yes Minister.

Posted by Habitat Hermit at January 12, 2008 10:49 PM

Mr. Wright, I thought that separation of church and state and freedom of religion were pillars of the Constitution?

Yeah, right. Now America has a political system in which the religion card is routinely played in every presidential election, and the national motto is changed from "E Pluribus Unum" (admittedly this was unofficial) to "In God We Trust".

As for freedom of religion - how about freedom to be irreligious? Nowhere in the entire USA is it possible to achieve high office without professing Christian faith, whether you really have it or not. Separation of church and state? I think not.

The letter of the law and actual practice are often very different. They are in America.

Dave, how about QI or "Have I Got News For You"? Or, reaching further back, Spitting Image.

And, lastly, Benny Hill was indeed trash. However, it was funny - which is the point of comedy, is it not?

Posted by Fletcher Christian at January 13, 2008 05:40 AM

I thought that separation of church and state and freedom of religion were pillars of the Constitution?

Your second paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with the first. And no, "separation of church and state" isn't even mentioned in the Constitution. All that the Constitution requires is that there be no established state religion (as there is in England, which was the model the founders had in mind), and that the government not discriminate on a religious basis.

That's it.

It doesn't mean that people can't proclaim their faith, it doesn't mean that no religion, or religious expression, is allowed, even in a political campaign. There has never been a time in our nation's history that the "religious card" (whatever the hell that means) hasn't been "played."

The Constitution does not provide freedom from religion, no matter how many anti-religious zealots and bigots might wish it did.

Posted by Rand Simberg at January 13, 2008 07:10 AM

QI, yes. Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, amazing. There's Fawlty Towers too. But also The Fast Show, Goodness Gracious Me, Father Ted, Black Books, Dead Ringers, Steptoe and Son, Only Fools and Hourse; the list is rather long really of hysterically funny comedy.

At the moment the only ones I'm finding remotely funny on US TV are 30 Rock and My Name is Earl, apart from that there's not a lot there.

What surprises me is the number of British shows that got remade in the US for no apparently good reason. I recall seeing Dear John USA and realising that it had pretty much been made script for script. This may have been the time of the last writers strike which could explain it. Apparently NBC have optioned Space:1999 incase the strike goes on longer. How low can they sink I wonder.

Posted by Dave at January 13, 2008 09:11 AM

US entertainment is so inferior that the rest of the world sets up import quotas to keep it out. (I don't think that we imported East Enders; is Baywatch still in reruns outside the US?)

> Nowhere in the entire USA is it possible to achieve high office without professing Christian faith, whether you really have it or not.

It's also impossible to "achieve high office" advocating that we start driving on the left.

FC is offended that American voters value something that he doesn't value. He seems to believe that rejection of his value system is somehow wrong.

Moreover, FC is wrong. There are quite a few congressmembers who don't profess Christianity. (The vast majority of appointed officials don't profess anything.) It doesn't come up in most state or local races either.

He'll likely respond "but what about the president?" What of it? That's ONE office.

The fact that the US doesn't have a plethora of "high offices" is a good thing - it limits the damage that can be done by the resume-packing tards that infect politics.

Posted by Andy Freeman at January 13, 2008 09:42 AM

"At least not without a canned laughter track, but I still think that "recorded in front of a live audience" (presumably of performing seals) still counts as a form of laugh track - in which case it's most of them. "

I would not consider this a laugh track as it is neither forced nor artificial laughter, it is simply a part of the show.

Posted by Mike Puckett at January 13, 2008 09:43 AM

I would not consider this a laugh track as it is neither forced nor artificial laughter, it is simply a part of the show.

There are two responses to this:

1) You like being shown/told when to laugh at things? I might be laughing at the same things myself, but then again, I might not. Hearing other people cackling like hyenas at things that aren't funny doesn't do much for my enjoyment of things.

2) It's actually more artificial than you seem to assume. Hint: the broadcast sound isn't necessarily what you'd have heard if you'd been sitting in the audience.

Posted by Dave at January 13, 2008 10:56 AM

Dave, one of the glaring examples is Absolutely Fabulous. I haven't seen the American version, but every report I've seen is that it's appalling, whereas the original is a side-splitting classic.

The real point is that UK TV programme makers are willing to take risks; with a very few honourable exceptions (remember the spoof soap opera called Soap?) US ones don't. They also have a plethora of characters that look impossibly perfect, too. Dallas wan't supposed to be a comedy, but it was.

As for US TV programme exports; well, most TV companies like buying imported rubbish to save money, and of course a lot of the public don't have any taste, either.

Also, international audiences get the US's "good stuff". I've seen utter rubbish that not even barrel-scrapers in the UK would buy, on prime-time American TV. And other countries' TV is probably even worse; perhaps I should have talked specifically about British TV as compared to American.

Rand, the religious card is essentially the same as the race card; to expect the public to choose a bigoted, ignorant idiot because he is in your approved group. Huckabee is a great example - so is Bush.

Posted by Fletcher Christian at January 13, 2008 01:48 PM

Huckabee is a good example. Bush is not.

And again, there is nothing in the Constitution about how one should decide how to vote.

Posted by Rand Simberg at January 13, 2008 02:05 PM

Nowhere in the entire USA is it possible to achieve high office without professing Christian faith, whether you really have it or not.

Of course it is, as long as you persuade enough people to vote for you.

It seems your real complaint is that enough people don't vote the way you want them to.

And, lastly, Benny Hill was indeed trash. However, it was funny - which is the point of comedy, is it not?

If you say so. As far as I'm concerned, British comedy peaked with Will Shakespeare, but I guess my tastes are not as sophisticated as yours. :-)

Posted by Edward Wright at January 13, 2008 08:18 PM

Come now Ed,

Monty Python was quite good.

Posted by Mike Puckett at January 13, 2008 08:49 PM

> Also, international audiences get the US's "good stuff".

Of course, "good stuff" for an international office means Baywatch, Knight Rider, TJ Hooker....

Posted by Andy Freeman at January 14, 2008 07:51 AM

There's a reasonable amount of American "good stuff" although the studio system does try its best to screw things up.

The Wire, Sopranos, West Wing, Dexter to name but four.

Firefly to name another brought low by the networks.

There's been some interesting discussion that the current writer's strike could effectively kill the existing studio system, so rather than the networks making and broadcasting their own stuff, there will be smaller production companies selling their own made stuff to networks and the Net.

This will probably lead to shorter seasons more like the British 6-12 week format, but it could improve things and move it more onto revenues and audience rather than the current more random thing.

Fletcher: the US version of Men Behaving Badly was possibly the worst thing I've ever seen. Not to mention not even Terry Farrell as the cat could save the US version of Red Dwarf.

Posted by Dave at January 14, 2008 10:20 AM

Rand, you are quite right. There is indeed nothing in the Constitution about how one should decide for whom to vote.

Popular, but utterly incompetent and/or corrupt, leadership is one of the central problems of democracy. One way to lessen this problem is to arrange for good education of the population in general - maybe that has something to do with the gradually worsening education system in both our countries?

After all, if someone is not educated well enough to think coherently about the issues, then it's much easier to feed him/her a line of BS and get in thereby.

Posted by Fletcher Christian at January 14, 2008 02:50 PM

Popular, but utterly incompetent and/or corrupt, leadership is one of the central problems of democracy

Arguable but completely irrelevant because the United States is not a democracy. It's a republic.

After all, if someone is not educated well enough to think coherently about the issues, then it's much easier to feed him/her a line of BS

No, no. It's just too easy a target. :-)

Posted by Edward Wright at January 14, 2008 09:44 PM

Mr Wright:

The distinction between a republic and a democracy is largely theoretical, and in any case the fact that the officials are elected leaves the problem of incompetent and/or corrupt leadership in place.

After all, if the constitution proves inconvenient to your plans, then it isn't too difficult to arrange for judges who support your "interpretation" of the law to be appointed. By the nature of things, Supreme Court judges don't tend to be in office all that long.

Short version: Republics are a subset of democracy (rule by the people) and have most of the problems, if not all, of a "pure" democracy.

Posted by Fletcher Christian at January 14, 2008 11:36 PM

Post a comment