In Denver.
Denver is not equipped to handle any convention scenario other than a coronation, and certainly not the most (potentially) contentious national convention in 40 years.
It is important to point out that the state of Colorado, and the city of Denver, is currently nearly completely controlled by Democrats at every level of government. This puts these locals in a box, politically and from a law enforcement standpoint. This sets up a scenario similar to Seattle 1999 WTO debacle. I happened to be living in downtown Seattle during that awful experience, and what stands out is that the city and state (even the Federal Government at that time) were all controlled by Democrats at every level, even police chief. That meant they were politically unwilling to confront their own in the days leading up to the summit: that is, the anti-globalism/WTO protestors, greenies, and union members that were planning major marches, civil disobedience, and even outright mischief.
The reason is simple, they didn’t want to alienate their own constituencies by seeming too heavy handed. The result was that by the time they had to crackdown, it was too late and with police state tactics, water cannons, gas cannisters, police in riot gear, and dusk to dawn curfews on the streets. There is still a lot of these scenes on YouTube and many disenchanted lefties are promising a repeat in Denver this year. Any variation of this would be a potential public relations disaster for the Democrat nominee in trying to win Colorado, and one that would virtually ensure not only a McCain victory in the state, but a stigmatization that could likely lead to major setbacks for the Democrat party in Colorado for years to come.
[Early afternoon update]
It’s already starting, and it’s still March:
Spagnuolo has been meeting monthly with city officials for a year, hoping to win the right to use Civic Center throughout the convention. He says 50,000 war protesters are coming for a march from Civic Center to the Pepsi Center on Aug. 24.
He said Thursday that he would not respect the host committee’s permit and would occupy the park, even if it forced police to intervene.
Referring to the $50 million in federal security money slated for the convention, Spagnuolo said Denver police would need “$25 million to protect the Pepsi Center and $25 million to protect Civic Center.”
I have no sympathy. When your political party encourages and welcomes brown shirterry (as long as it’s aimed at “neocons” and “globalists,” and “capitalists,” and other evil people), this is what you get. Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.
[Update at 1 PM]
More bad news for the donkeys:
In a sign of just how divisive and ugly the Democratic fight has gotten, only 53% of Clinton voters say they’ll vote for Obama should he become the nominee. Nineteen percent say they’ll go for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and 13% say they won’t vote. Sixty percent of Obama voters say they’ll go for Clinton should she win the nomination, with 20% opting for McCain, and three percent saying they won’t vote.
That’s already starting to show up in the national polling, where McCain is way ahead of both Hillary! and Obama. As I’ve been saying for months, the Dems have set themselves for a shellacking, because both of their lead candidates are unelectable in the general, and the internecine strife just makes it worse. Their only hope lies in a brokered convention, and a different candidate, and even then, it’s unlikely that they’ll recover.
Chicago 1968.
I agree with the imminent concern, but I can’t say I agree with the long term ramifications. As Mr. Kavanagh points to Chicago 1968, the Democrats certainly didn’t lose their strangle hold in that city because of the convention riots. I don’t know what happened in the immediate year or so afterwards, but there is still a Mayor Daley, even if the original was overcome by nature.
Even looking at Seattle, that town’s leadership didn’t get much of a hit after 1999 WTO fiasco. I haven’t noticed rank and file Democrats to have the ability to notice hypocrisy within their own party.
Leland,
Colorado is much more on the bubble than Illinois was.
Colorado is much more on the bubble than Illinois was.
What does that mean?
Politicians of all stripes are very adept at redirecting blame. You can be assured that even if the Denver Convention causes rioting in the streets, the local and state Democrats will quickly deflect blame.
It will become the national party’s fault, or ‘imported radicals’ fault, or the ‘culture of division’ fostered by the Bush administration. There may even be a designated scapegoat within the party.
The democrats may lose the state in the national election, but I very much doubt they’ll lose their control of Denver and Colorado.
The organizers of the WTO conference in 1999 were stupid to pick Seattle in the first place. If I ran the WTO, I would have picked an Asian city like Singapore, Shanghai, or Beijing for the conference. Any of these would have been a far better choice than any place like Seattle.
Of course, this is not an option for the democrats as they must have their convention in a U.S. city and they would have problems picking a more conservative venue such as Dallas, Phoenix, or Houston.
Although I am not as rabidly anti-democrat as Rand, I agree with him that the democratic party convention this summer will be quite entertaining.
It means while 1968 Illinois was solidly Democrat and could absorb such nonsense, Colorado is much more pliable in that regard being very purple.
Surely you mean “Chicago” rather than “Illinois”. In 1969, Illinois elected Ogilvie as its Repulbican governor, and Smith as its Republican Senator, and Percy, had just been elected as its other Republican Senator.
As for Chicago itself, it is more important to look at machine vs non-machine politicans rather than Democrat vs Republican. Finally, it is worth understanding that the current Mayor Daley is popular because he is quite different from his father.
The Seattle WTO decision was not stupid. Here in the Upper Left Washington we are constantly told how open-minded and forward looking and Pacific-Rim oriented we are. So hosting just such a meeting made sense. What the politicians that run this state neglected to do was to get the their brownshirts auxiliaries, used to getting their way on minor matters, contained or placated properly beforehand. Worse, once the fun began, all the politicians (and Seattle police chief) were afraid to do anything that might sully their “nice” image that they treasure. (And the fun was limited to downtown Seattle. Here on the Eastside, life went on normally.) You still see this attitude in the recent hate-American gatherings down in Olympia/Evergreen State, where vandalism is tolerated.
I don’t know enough about Denver, but I won’t assume that just because they are Dems, they share the Pacific coast smug self-satisfied one-party state mindset that made the WTO situation possible. Most likely they’ve digested the WTO lesson and are determined to not repeat it. Unfortunately for them, the brownshirts just might be even more determined to recreate past glories, and may have the numbers to pull it off. (Another factor: because it’s more centrally located that a coastal or Northeast city, it will be easier financially and geographically for thugs to gather. I wouldn’t be surprised that it’s their last stop on a last long road-trip just before classes restart.)
(Percy? The original RINO Percy? Whatever…)
>(Percy? The original RINO Percy?)
So-called RINO members of the Senate often get conservative Supreme Court Justices approved and can be pretty helpful with party-line votes. If the Republicans would like to cede any or all seats belonging to RINOs to the Democrats, I’m sure the Democrats would be thrilled.
Gee, I hope the cops in Denver don’t use riot agent on those poor misunderstood young people, who are only trying to put right some this fascist regime’s manifold wrongs.
I hope, also, that they don’t break any heads with their PR-24’s. And that they don’t hit them with the fire hoses. That wouldn’t be right.
Further, it sure would be too bad if they were to loose the K-9’s, or give the police horses the command to kick. Who would deserve that?
Please, Lord, don’t let them fire rubber bullets, or bean bag guns, or Taser these harmless little cherubs.
I hope these children will be preserved from harsh chokeholds, being dwagged woughly ovew worn-out asphalt to the paddy wagons, more blows from riot sticks, uncomfortable zip cuffs, and having to sit in the paddy wagon without being able to relieve themselves.
And I really, really hope that none of them are prosecuted vigorously, and have to do any county or state or federal time, with the rough sorts whose parents neglected to pay their way through school. Unfair, that would be.
Oh, how I cringe for all of Spagnuolo’s harmless, fun-loving, earnest, not-at-all-ill-intentioned friends! Seriously. Telling you true. Really. No shit.
I wonder if I could just enlist into the Colorado National Guard for one month?
I wonder which units are designated for riot control?
“I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.” Will Rogers had it right. This is going to be so much fun! Why bother voting in November? John McCain will be elected by a landslide.
The odd thing for me is this recreate ’68 group… what is their purpose exactly? The riots in ’68 probably handed NIXON the presidency, and created a lot of enduring messes. Seems like their point would be solidifying the Dems, so they have a shot at getting someone elected.
Dunno, that just looks anarchist to me. Also? the whole, we lost the lottery about what park we can use, so we won’t abide by the terms? Uh, yeah, I’d bet money that HAD they one civic center park, they would have been demanding a lot of protection, to keep anyone form thinking of doing what they themselves will do.
I think if you look around at Denver and Colorado in general, you’ll see a much less Democrat control than it appears. Whoever said “Purple” is quite right. A lot of the suburbs are more GOP enclaves, and the rural areas split a lot as well… I think many here pick the unconscious balance.
In any case, any rabble rousing that happens at the convention is going to look extraordianrily bad for the dems, especially if it is done by people claiming to be dems. I believe the term is slicing off the nose to spite the face.
“the democratic party convention this summer will be quite entertaining”
I’ve ordered extra popcorn. 😀
Percy was one of the best Senators Illinois ever had.
You queried his office – you got an answer. And not a form letter either. The man was organized.
kurt9:
Having spent ample time working and living in China and doing business in Singapore, I’d say there’s a reason why tinker-toy revolutionaries like the faux-tough guys of Black Bloc don’t show up at APEC summits in places like Shanghai.
In China they’d get to go toe-to-toe with the enforcement apparatus of a real police state — as opposed to the one in their fevered fantasies. No televised arrests with plastic handcuffs and Miranda rights followed by press conferences featuring activists lawyers and slap-on-the-wrist sentences from lenient judges while defendants sneer and snap wet towels at authority figures. Singapore might be a tad more accommodating of such nonsense, but not much.
Or, perhaps they don’t want to embarrass an enemy of their enemy, et., etc.
Long and short: Western ‘revolutionaries’ are poseurs and frauds. Always have been.
P.S. That is, modern Western ‘revolutionaries’.
Dunno, that just looks anarchist to me.
It is. The ‘Black Bloc’ types who turned the WTO protests into a fiasco aren’t leftists, they’re anarchists (mostly operating out of Oregon- Eugene seems to be a nexus for them). The actual leftist protesters tried to rein the anarchists in, they knew chaos would overshadow the lefties’ message.
Protesters aren’t any more monolithic than any other political group.
EMAIL THESE LINKS OUT **NOW** TO YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS AHEAD OF PENNSYLVANIA PRIMARY!!
Obama
“Please, Lord, don’t let them fire rubber bullets, or bean bag guns, or Taser these harmless little cherubs.”
“I wonder if I could just enlist into the Colorado National Guard for one month?”
Look, I hold hippies, communists, and (violent) anarchists in contempt as much as the next dude, but wanting to personally implement violence yourself does seem to me rather fascist; more precisely, relishing the possibility seems to me a personality defect.
I’d far rather not see it come to this, as my mother lives downtown, although a couple miles from the area they’re talking about. But I’d think it would be good of the anarchists to recall that here in Colorado we’re only a couple generations removed from range and water wars, and tend to be rather better armed than the run of the mill cty dweller in Chicago or Seattle.
Kolohe, this Spanuolo bird is promising to
“…not respect the host committee’s permit and would occupy the park, even if it forced police to intervene.
I’m guessing that this might easily involve destruction of property and injuries to people–with an outside chance for actual loss of life. This will happen because a political party has the audacity to arrange its’ affairs as it sees fit, and not supinely stage a coronation for a racial grievance hustler.
But I’ve got the personality defect–gotcha.
“”I wonder if I could just enlist into the Colorado National Guard for one month?”
Look, I hold hippies, communists, and (violent) anarchists in contempt as much as the next dude, but wanting to personally implement violence yourself does seem to me rather fascist; more precisely, relishing the possibility seems to me a personality defect.”
Naah, Hippies need a good wood shampooing once in a while. I don’t wanna kill em’ just show them some respect for private property. Besides, all that good riot control training I recieved a decade and a half ago needs to pay off for the government.
I live about 2 miles from the convention center and work about 4 blocks from it.
I cannot decide if I want to leave town or grab a pair of binoculars and camp out in the 20th floor conference room and watch the ruckus from the windows.
The “Recreate 68” group is a bunch of nut-cases. It’s an umbrella organization for every strange grievance-based group in the country.
God knows why anyone wanted this disaster to descend on Denver. It’s going to be a mess – probably a very expensive mess.
BTW: I’m not sure that the Denver police department even has water cannon – but they are known for shooting people.
this fascist regime’s manifold wrongs
I prefer to focus on the positive
;^)
>> I wonder if I could just enlist into the Colorado National Guard for one month?
> Look, I hold hippies, communists, and (violent) anarchists in contempt as much as the next dude, but wanting to personally implement violence yourself does seem to me rather fascist; more precisely, relishing the possibility seems to me a personality defect.
You know, some days you just can’t win. Conservatives get called “chickenhawks” if they support our military in Iraq but do not themselves enlist to fight. Well, here’s a guy who’s willing to actually join the organization that’s sworn to protect the citizenry from lawbreaking radicals — to not be a chickenhawk, in other words — and he’s called a fascist.
Get your freakin’ pejoratives straight, okay?