Capitalism in space does not, to date, include people in space. Nothing on the horizon does either. The trajectory of robotics probably means there will never be a compelling reason for humans in Earth orbit. A real comedown from all that SF I read.
People will be in Earth orbit because many people want to be in Earth orbit, and a subset of them will be able to afford to do so. Tell Jared Isaacman that there will never be a compelling reason to be in Earth orbit, and see what he says.
Unfortunately the jury is still out as to whether people will actually be able to stay in space. We know 0g beyond about a year in space is not medically sound. We don’t know yet for fractional g. It would make tremendous sense for a next generation space station be designed to study exactly this issue. But in essence the push is trial by doing by moving ahead for a moon base. I’m assuming early moon occupants would be doing short stints of one year or less. This will not be feasible for logistical reasons for projected Mars colonists. Ergo back to the gravity lab based space station in LEO. If it turns out fractional g is not survivable, gravity habs could be put in low Mars orbit for surface occupants to cycle through if a proper surface treatment cannot be found.
I would suggest that it is the last** generation space station that should have been investigating partial gravity. It makes no sense to me that a half century after the first space stations, and over a quarter century of continuous occupancy, that there has been zero investigation of this. ISS investigating microgee is understandable, stopping there is not.
Project Gemini studied the effects of long term zero-G on the human body, especially with Gemini 5 and Gemini 7. Sixty years later we are still studying the effects of long term zero-G on the human body. Well, the effects are not very good so we need to start spinning the vehicles to generate artificial gravity.
There are thousands of millionaires who would like to travel in space, and that’s just within SpaceX. ^_^
There are thousands of millionaires who would like to travel in space, and that’s just within SpaceX. ^_^
Well, thousands? Maybe. More likely for some ratio Y whereby: X = Y * 4400 according to the NYT…
Japan has been running variable g biological experiments on mice aboard ISS for some time. It appears that 2/3 g is the point where the damage to the organism can be mitigated after return to 1 g, but at 1/3 g that is no longer possible. Whether this scales to humans or not is the next question, but things aren’t looking good.
We will probably have people on Mars before a rotating space station but maybe not. Maybe the Space Force will build one and tell us about it years later.
I think the experiments will more cheaply be done on the Moon as far as low gee goes. There’s no reason why selected individuals can’t stay on the Moon for longer than a year. Mars ISRU is a thing. I have a design for a base that’s inexpensive, relative to what space stations cost, that would work on the Moon or Mars. The hardware’s cheap. Delivering it to the destination not so much even with Starship. But hardware that will work on Earth will work on the Moon and Mars because they just need steady gravity. Stuff associated with submarines and deep-shaft mining, both of which I have significant knowledge and experience.
It’s probably safe to assume that if humans can do well in lunar gravity, they ought to be able to fare even better in Martian gravity. “Ought” is the operative word. If they don’t, there is work to be done before Mars.
“Work to be done”. If they don’t do well in Martian gravity either, there would seem to be three choices: (1) Don’t do Mars; (2) Bioengineer humans (Man Plus) (I hear that in Lister’s voice); or (3) Big centrifuges. (maybe not the entire colony, maybe just sleeping quarters or a gym. We don’t know).
Sorry was a little unclear. What I really meant was: if people don’t fare well in lunar gravity, then there’s work to be done in anticipation of Mars. But again we don’t have a curve yet either.
The Moon will give us a point on the curve between zero g and 1 g.
We currently have no idea what the curve looks like.
Why are we still torturing astronauts in zero g? We know it isn’t good..
Should have had a lunar g lab in the ISS.
Unfortunately, ISS was supposed to be all things to all people. A big centrifuge would have caused vibrations that would have disturbed some of the microgravity experiments (at least, that’s the excuse I heard). Jack of all trades, master of none.
Build out commercial space stations. Lots of em.
Become a “space tourist” and do your part to help pay for them… How about a national lottery for tickets to space*? Sponsored by SpaceX.
*transferable to friends and family of course, if 0g makes you queasy.
Merchandising.
https://youtu.be/fgRFQJCHcPw?t=36&is=R_no3P6oT8EvrV9F
Fits in well with prior thread. So thankful Mel Brooks was still young enough to make Space Balls.
Capitalism in space does not, to date, include people in space. Nothing on the horizon does either. The trajectory of robotics probably means there will never be a compelling reason for humans in Earth orbit. A real comedown from all that SF I read.
People will be in Earth orbit because many people want to be in Earth orbit, and a subset of them will be able to afford to do so. Tell Jared Isaacman that there will never be a compelling reason to be in Earth orbit, and see what he says.
Unfortunately the jury is still out as to whether people will actually be able to stay in space. We know 0g beyond about a year in space is not medically sound. We don’t know yet for fractional g. It would make tremendous sense for a next generation space station be designed to study exactly this issue. But in essence the push is trial by doing by moving ahead for a moon base. I’m assuming early moon occupants would be doing short stints of one year or less. This will not be feasible for logistical reasons for projected Mars colonists. Ergo back to the gravity lab based space station in LEO. If it turns out fractional g is not survivable, gravity habs could be put in low Mars orbit for surface occupants to cycle through if a proper surface treatment cannot be found.
I would suggest that it is the last** generation space station that should have been investigating partial gravity. It makes no sense to me that a half century after the first space stations, and over a quarter century of continuous occupancy, that there has been zero investigation of this. ISS investigating microgee is understandable, stopping there is not.
**Or the one(s) before that.
Project Gemini studied the effects of long term zero-G on the human body, especially with Gemini 5 and Gemini 7. Sixty years later we are still studying the effects of long term zero-G on the human body. Well, the effects are not very good so we need to start spinning the vehicles to generate artificial gravity.
There are thousands of millionaires who would like to travel in space, and that’s just within SpaceX. ^_^
There are thousands of millionaires who would like to travel in space, and that’s just within SpaceX. ^_^
Well, thousands? Maybe. More likely for some ratio Y whereby: X = Y * 4400 according to the NYT…
Japan has been running variable g biological experiments on mice aboard ISS for some time. It appears that 2/3 g is the point where the damage to the organism can be mitigated after return to 1 g, but at 1/3 g that is no longer possible. Whether this scales to humans or not is the next question, but things aren’t looking good.
We will probably have people on Mars before a rotating space station but maybe not. Maybe the Space Force will build one and tell us about it years later.
Name one.
I think the experiments will more cheaply be done on the Moon as far as low gee goes. There’s no reason why selected individuals can’t stay on the Moon for longer than a year. Mars ISRU is a thing. I have a design for a base that’s inexpensive, relative to what space stations cost, that would work on the Moon or Mars. The hardware’s cheap. Delivering it to the destination not so much even with Starship. But hardware that will work on Earth will work on the Moon and Mars because they just need steady gravity. Stuff associated with submarines and deep-shaft mining, both of which I have significant knowledge and experience.
It’s probably safe to assume that if humans can do well in lunar gravity, they ought to be able to fare even better in Martian gravity. “Ought” is the operative word. If they don’t, there is work to be done before Mars.
“Work to be done”. If they don’t do well in Martian gravity either, there would seem to be three choices: (1) Don’t do Mars; (2) Bioengineer humans (Man Plus) (I hear that in Lister’s voice); or (3) Big centrifuges. (maybe not the entire colony, maybe just sleeping quarters or a gym. We don’t know).
Sorry was a little unclear. What I really meant was: if people don’t fare well in lunar gravity, then there’s work to be done in anticipation of Mars. But again we don’t have a curve yet either.
Bed rest is bad for the human body. Whatever the solution is, it would have to include being out of bed.
The Moon will give us a point on the curve between zero g and 1 g.
We currently have no idea what the curve looks like.
Why are we still torturing astronauts in zero g? We know it isn’t good..
Should have had a lunar g lab in the ISS.
Unfortunately, ISS was supposed to be all things to all people. A big centrifuge would have caused vibrations that would have disturbed some of the microgravity experiments (at least, that’s the excuse I heard). Jack of all trades, master of none.
Build out commercial space stations. Lots of em.
Become a “space tourist” and do your part to help pay for them… How about a national lottery for tickets to space*? Sponsored by SpaceX.
*transferable to friends and family of course, if 0g makes you queasy.