Kvetch
There are plenty of much greater criticisms, and I have them, as any regular reader of this site knows, and no one was more irritated by George Bush’s “nucular” than I was, but I find the new president’s own verbal affectations quite annoying.
“Tahleebahn”? “Pahkeestahn”?
Who talks like this?
As Glenn Reynolds pointed out a long time ago, it’s like the NPR correspondents who work mightily to get their local Spanish inflections exactly correct when reporting on their communist heroes in Central America while not bothering to learn the difference between an auto and semi-auto gun.
Hey, it’s just “Taliban” (like “tally” and to “ban” a book), and “Pakistan” (like “pack” for a trip, and “Stan,” Oliver Hardy’s partner).
And don’t even get me started about “Oreeon.” What does he, think it’s a cookie? That one will be a real problem for the next four years unless he kills the NASA program.
[Monday morning update]
And yes, before anyone asks, while (unlike many, apparently) I had no problem with Sarah Palin’s speech patterns in general, I did find her “Eye-rak” kind of grating.
March 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Hooked on Phonics, Rand. Hooked on Phonics.
Plus, that’s how they pronounced it in elementary school in Indonesia.
March 29th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Saturday Night Live, bless their dark little hearts, occasionally gets some of their satire on target instead of scattered across the civilian countryside.
Actor Jimmy Smits, a minor celebrity on account of his stint on LA Law, was in this skit where everyone was trying to use the NPR sound-it-out guide on Mexican food, with one guy asking for “hhheuvosss, rrrancherrros!”
The goof was of course on this kind of Hispanic authenticity, and the joke was that Jimmy Smits is an assimilated Hispanic and regular guy, who complains, “hey what is all this, I just wanted a burrito.”
March 29th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Glad I’m not the only one annoyed by “Pahkeestahn” and the like (and yes, Bush’s “nucular” was just as bad, though I guess I didn’t notice as much since I hear far too many folks mispronounce nuclear, as well). I wonder if Barry knows he pronounces these words differently than almost everyone else in America, or is too oblivious to know/care?
March 29th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
I’ve previously remarked to husband number one about the O’s affected pronunciation of these words. It’s particularly irritating because he then pronounces “Afghanistan” normally: Af, as in “after”, gan, as in “gander”, and stan as in Laurel.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:40 am
Taliban, rhymes with Caliban.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:18 am
You’ve piqued our (or at least my) interest, Danae. By “husband number one” do you mean the first in a series who is no longer a husband, or one of others in parallel? Not that it’s our business, but it seems an interesting phrase.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:23 am
I call it “South Park Pronunciation.” As in this.
It really doesn’t get any better than this.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:51 am
I don’t know if this has anything to do with “Oreeun”, but for many years a Chicago radio broadcaster was named Orion Samuelson. However, he always pronounced it Oreeun instead of Orryan. This is a common dialect thing in southern Illinois, where towns like Versailles and Cairo are called Mar-sales or Kay-ro. But you would think a Harvard man would know better.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:33 am
There is a local DC-area radio correspondent named Guadalupe [last name not recalled] who identifies herself in an unintended self-parodying, hyper-Latin-pronunciation.
She doesn’t say Gwah-dah-loo-pay as in the American version, but ‘WA-tha-lu-peh’ in such an over-the-top accent that if a comedian used that accent, he’d be raked over the coals by La Raza as “insensitive”!! We know you’re Hispanic, darlin’, from your name, but the overpronunciation is Ri-damn-diculous!!!
March 30th, 2009 at 8:15 am
Tal-EEEE-bahn…
I’m glad that I’m not only one is mightily irked by
Pres. Obama’s pronunciation of Taliban as “Tal-EEEE_bahn” and likewise
for Pakistan. If there was even an ounce of equanimity in the media and
among comedians they would be making fun of Obama…
March 30th, 2009 at 9:38 am
“Husband number one”–
Rand, I just assumed it was a subtle threat to keep the guy in line.
March 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
As an Indian, I will tell you that Obama’s pronunciation of Pakistan is actually correct.
BUT…
He simultaneously pronounces ‘Afghanistan’ wrongly. As per how he pronounces Pakistan, the correct way to pronounce Afghanistan is “Uf-GHAhn-ee-stahn”.
He pronounces Pakistan correctly since he heard a local say it. He never heard a local pronounce Afghanistan correctly, so he uses the American way.
In the Muslim world, America is also wrongly pronounced, as “AmrEEkka”.
March 30th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
The point isn’t whether or not it’s “correct” (in terms of local speakers, but I’m sure even there, there are variations). To an American, it sounds like an affectation (and as you point out, particularly so when he’s inconsistent about it, as with Afghanistan). Few Americans would care how the “Muslim world” (that’s a pretty big world — do you mean Arabic, which has its own variations?) pronounce “America.”
March 30th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Rand,
The ‘Amreeka’ pronunciation (3 syllables instead of 4, due to no vowel between and m and r) is common from Egypt all the way through Pakistan.
England is called “Angrejistan”. English is called “Angreji”. Alexander is called ‘Sikander’. Solomon = Suleiman, Abraham = Ibrahim, etc.
I agree that Obama’s inconsistency is the most jarring. If he is going to say “Pock-ee-stahn”, then he better say ‘Uf-GHAHN-ee-Stahn’. Saying ‘Stan’ as in ‘Stanly’ is always wrong, but at least be consistent, like Sarah Palin.
The way the ‘t’ is pronounced in all three words (stan, Taliban, etc) is itself a pronunciation of ‘t’ that does not exist in English.
Much like Chinese people have trouble saying ‘l’, resulting in ‘rorripop’ and ‘rurrabye’.
If you have an Indian friend, go ask him verbally about the ‘t’ and ‘Paki/Afghani-stan’ pronunciations.
March 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I assume GT is referring to Arabic – Farsi’s a little different (Iran, since I get asked that a lot). “AmrEEkka” is the same, but “English” is “Ahn-ga-lee-see.” Just to clarify.
Patrick, I couldn’t get the link to load properly for some reason (redirected), but I’m familiar with that episode and am assuming you’re referring to the “durka-durka” so-called “Arabic” used. The weird thing is, the “marg bar amreeka” (“death to America”) chant really is Dari/Farsi.
Consistency! It’s a good thing.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I wonder how Obama pronounces “realtor” and “nuptials”. Or “negotiate”. Those are my top three cringe-inducers.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
It seems that if you are going to say “Pah-kee-stahn” then you should also be saying “E-span-ya”, “Doich-lahnd”, “Nee-hon”, and “Zhang-gwo”.
But maybe, if you are speaking English, it is correct to use the English names for things.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
I wonder how Obama pronounces “realtor” and “nuptials”. Or “negotiate”.
“Tony’s friend”, “gateway to the Machine”, and “strongarm”, respectively.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I noticed the tick, including his ordinary pronunciation of Afghanistan, right next to Pahk-ee-stahn. More interesting to me, however, is how so many commentators have adopted the same pronunciations. It’s all over NPR, and just a bit ago on Fox General Petraeus mimicked Obama exactly. I suspect Obama is laughing up his sleeve at the slavishness of so many of his followers. I think it’s pretty disgusting, myself.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
It’s the extra-nuanced way that Professors talk-down to the little people.
March 30th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I’m more concerned about dimballah thinking there are “moderate” taliban members than how he pronounces the word.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
““Tony’s friend”, “gateway to the Machine”, and “strongarm”, respectively.”
Good one.
” think it’s pretty disgusting, myself.”
I find it frightening, and VERY, VERY similar to what happened in Germany circa 1933-37.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
GK: “Much like Chinese people have trouble saying ‘l’, resulting in ‘rorripop’ and ‘rurrabye’.”
Gk, as a Chinese person, I know you are definitely wong here. As in “two wongs do not make one wight.”
It’s the “r” that we are supposed to have touble ponouncing.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
And please — don’t forget poor “Frohnce!”
Why do they get left out in the cold?
March 30th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
If he’s going to say “Pahkeestahn,” then dammit, he needs to to say “Doitchlahnd,” “Espanya,” “Neehon,” “Jong-gwo,” “Rossya,” “Yisrael,” and so on.
Wouldn’t that be a hoot?
“Thank you, Chancellor Merkel, and thank you to the people of Doitchlahnd for making my visit to BearLEEN and Minhyen so agreeable.”
Our president is a posturing nebbish.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I wonder how Bambi would pronounce Bumfukistan…
March 30th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
I might point out that the word ‘India’ never originated in India.
Hindu Indians called their own country ‘Bharat’ and Hindi-language speech still refers to it as ‘Bharat’.
Muslims to the West called India ‘Hindustan’, which also took hold in India. Today, that word is used often, even though it is excluding of the 17-20% of Indians who are not Hindu.
In India today, the three terms Hindustan, Bharat, and India are used interchangeably, depending on which language the surrounding sentence is spoken in.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
IC,
So why did ‘Team America : World Police” show the Korean Kim-Jong-Il singing “I’m so Ronery..”?
March 30th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
It’s time to admit that “nucular” is a regionalism. I’ve given up keeping track of the smart, literate people who pronounce the word that way, and I’m old enough to remember that Jimmy Carter, a nuclear, repeat, nuclear engineer, pronounced the world “nucular.”
March 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Get used to it, these will be the required national pronunciations by 2010.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Because he’s Korean, not Chinese.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
My grandma and her husband lived next to Willow Grove NAS, and they spent a lot of time in the O-club (he being a Navy vet.) It was called “The Orion Club”, since a couple of P-3 units operated out of WGNAS.
It wasn’t until I was telling a funny story about the vet mispronouncing my cat’s name that she realized it WASN’T “Oreeon”.
(This same vet had first called him “Onion”, and then corrected herself…to “Oreeon”…)
March 30th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Whenever Obama pulls his Pahkeestahn pronunciation someone should promptly ask him about NAFTA and our partners “Canada” and … “Meh- ee -ko.”
March 30th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
It all started with Chris Matthew’s CHEEENY!
March 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
GK, The Korean Kim Jong-Il is not Chinese. Really.
March 30th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
It wasn’t just Bush II who did ‘nuculur’, it was also Clinton and Bush I, at the least. Also Carter; not sure about Reagan.
If I were writing a 24-style spy thriller, I’d have had that be the Presidential Distress code: if he ever pronounces ‘nuclear’ correctly, the agents know that he’s acting under duress and can respond accordingly…
March 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
To Be Fair, Up Until Yesterday, I Wasn’t Worried About A Nuclear-Armed Impala…
Jennifer Rubin notes the directions that the president’s sabers are and aren’t being rattled:
The president’s get-tough approach with GM and Chrysler is an exercise in decisive “diplomacy.” (Well, it’s bullying, really, but since th…
March 30th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Re Orion, is it possible he’s never seen Men in Black?
March 30th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
emerich, I don’t believe Dimbulb Carter was actually a nucular engineer (or a nuclear engineer, either). He studied engineering of some kind at the Naval Academy, and was then admitted to Admiral Rickover’s team and eventually was qualified to serve on a nuclear powered submarine. I’m not certain that that would qualify him as a ‘nuclear engineer’ unless by that he meant he drove the sub much as a train engineer drives the train.
;->=
March 30th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
There’s another word that he also mispronounces. It’s the indefinite article, “a”. He pronounces it as the letter “AY” rather than “uh”. This is surprising since he is able to pronounce its homonym, which is his most common word; namely, “uh”.
Most liberal reporters are now also mispronouncing “a”.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Great. Now his is stuck in my head:
Come, Mister tally man, tally me ba na na
Daylight he come and me wanna go home
Come, Mister tally ban, tally me O ba ma
Bar ack he come and Rik Wagna go home
Day-O Day-O
March 30th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
… I’m old enough to remember that Jimmy Carter, a nuclear, repeat, nuclear engineer, pronounced the world “nucular.”
Although on some occasions it came out “nookier” … but then, we all know what was on his mind and in his heart.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
“Tahleebahn” is short for…
“Tahlee me bahnanas.”
Daylight come, an’ me wan’ go home.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Who cares about “Orion.”
I want to know how he pronounces “Uranus.”
March 30th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
GK: “So why did ‘Team America : World Police” show the Korean Kim-Jong-Il singing “I’m so Ronery..”?”
GK, are you kidding me? You are talking about the Korean Kim JI, not the Chinese Mao Tze-Dong.
Koreans are not Chinese, Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese, Vietnamese are not Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese… They may look the same to you. But believe me, they don’t speak the same languages, don’t even share a set of alphabets like most Europeans do. Within China, a Shanghainese speaker will not understand what the heck a Cantonese speaker is yapping about.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I think it’s from his time in Indonesia. I’ve also heard central or SE Asian English-speakers use the term “oby-gyny” versus O-B-G-Y-N as he has been heard to say.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Normal people say i-RACK and i-RAN when theyre talking terrorists for the same reason they say OFF-fence and DEE-fence when they’re talking football – because it’s easy for a listener to confuse them if you pronounce them the hoity-toity Miss Thistlebottom’s Dictionary way.
March 30th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
It’s not the RACK and RAN that bother me — it’s the EYE.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
But maybe, if you are speaking English, it is correct to use the English names for things.
Agreed. When I worked in college radio, we had a news director who was part German (to the extent that her mother was named “Helga” and spoke German at home). She was insistent that an earthquake was measured on the RISH-ter scale (the German pronunciation) because the guy’s name looked German–never mind that Mr. RICK-ter was actually born in Ohio…
March 30th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
“Koreans are not Chinese, Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese, Vietnamese are not Japanese are not Koreans are not Chinese…”
But Koreans and Chinese both have the same difficulty with pronouncing ‘l’.
Hence the ‘I’m so Ronery’ from Kim Jong-Il.
March 30th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
In the Muslim world, America is also wrongly pronounced, as “AmrEEkka”.
Actually, it’s typically mispronounced “DEATH to AmrEEkka”.
March 31st, 2009 at 2:02 am
This is very annoying – the next time someone pulls this on you, ask them what the capital of France is. They’ll say Paris and you say “no, it’s Par-ee. Idiot.”
Same with Qatar and all the media types rushing to call it “gutter” to sound all local and romantic. Even the foreign minister calls it ‘Qatar’ when speaking in English.
March 31st, 2009 at 2:05 am
[...] President’s pronunciation of “Taliban” as “tallee-bahn” is a peculiar affectation, much like Madonna’s odd mix of American and British [...]
March 31st, 2009 at 2:19 am
My co-workers here in Iraq that are from Pak-is-tan… assure me that our President is mispronouncing the name of their country, though as many others have mentioned it is in fact Uf-ghan-is-tan… and certainly not Eye-raq or I -rock…
March 31st, 2009 at 6:08 am
Talking about the debonair stranger’s odd pronunciation will just deepen your exhaustion, as the anemia takes hold.
March 31st, 2009 at 6:33 am
Plus, that’s how they pronounced it in elementary school in Indonesia.
BINGO
This is also why he doesn’t know about Orion, because he would have learned Greek mythology and astrological stars in elementary school, not high school.
March 31st, 2009 at 8:20 am
Did anyone hear Obama’s radio address last Saturday? I only heard excerpts on the news, but he pronounces “integral” as “intrical” (or, at best, “intregal”). This should be the new nucular. If Bush had said it, the press would be all over him.
March 31st, 2009 at 9:11 am
I find this thread written in a fashion reminiscent of Jenjhis Khan.
March 31st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
While we are determining proper pronunciations for American dialect, can we address forté? I know it’s supposed to be pronounced just “fort” but it sounds stupid.
Say for-tay. It’s just better that way.
BTW, when I was in Chile they referred to US folks as “Norte Americanos.”
Poor Canadians. They have been labeled out of existence by a country named after a fruit.
My stance on pronunciation in general is “do the common thing.”
If you pronounce words in a common and unremarkable way, people will listen to what you are saying rather than how you say it. Hence, Spanglish pronunciation of cities in California, batun rewj Louisiana, Kay-ro Illinoy. The trouble comes when we occupy countries we never paid any attention to before. Who cared how Offguniston was pronounced in 2000?
And no one corrects the Univision announcer when they say “Los Estados Unidos.”
March 31st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
An asinine condescension…
This post (via Instapundit) reminded me how much the whole “nucular” thing annoyed me. Not Bush’s pronunciation, but ……