Taking The Modern Age

for granted.

The engineers, the people who actually make this stuff work (not to denigrate the financiers, marketers, etc. whose efforts are also necessary to fund the engineers) are underappreciated in society. As is technology in general. As he points out, people are complaining about having twenty-minute delays on a trip that would have taken their ancestors (and not distant ancestors — great-great-grandparents) months.

31 thoughts on “Taking The Modern Age”

  1. Another problem is that South Asian engineers will work for a small fraction of the wage previously paid to North American engineers.

    Therefore, the financiers and marketers look overseas for production while looking domestically for consumption. It is only logical.

    And today, the easiest way to make money is to charge 30% interest to credit card users who are buying things made in China.

  2. Some months back I was at a party whose host graduated from college in 1990. He gave an interesting reason why people his age did not go into engineering nearly as much as people older than him and his wife. Jack Welch, CEO of GE, was firing thousands of engineers at the time. Who wants to work hard in college and then get fired at some point in their career just so a CEO can boost profits in the short run?

  3. Some of those engineering jobs are moving back. It made sense to move jobs to India when engineers there got $25K a year. Now that they are asking for $75K, the added costs for coordination of a widely dispersed group of engineers makes outsourcing a 50-50 proposition. The same thing will happen to the South Asia jobs.

    I do agree that we engineers are greatly underappreciated by society. But we generally are lacking in social skills which may explain a bit of that.

  4. I think the real problem is that engineers are too competent. That just doesn’t fit well in today’s society.

  5. I think it’s not just engineers, but producers in general that are underappreciated, using the word producer in the sense of producer / consumer. It’s a necessary corollary of the political philosophy of entitlement. You have to denigrate the essential difficulty of the production of goods and services in order to justify idea that people can have a ‘right’ to them. You think engineers get a bum rap today? Wait and see what happens to doctors and nurses once health care becomes a right.

  6. “I think the real problem is that engineers are too competent. That just doesn’t fit well in today’s society.”

    So why do lawyers always take their milk money?

  7. You think engineers get a bum rap today? Wait and see what happens to doctors and nurses once health care becomes a right.

    You don’t necessarily have to wait and see. Just ask a private doctor about medicare. But then again, I fully agree with your point. Once health care becomes a right*, you won’t have to ask, as the results will be more dramatic and visible.

    *And these people arguing that the bill is solidifying health care as a right. That’s a bastardized use of the term “right”. Every American has a right to healthcare today without the current proposed bill becoming law. What the bill will do is require that every American purchase insurance for healthcare. That’s not a right, that’s an obligation hoisted on the American people. Not that there is anything wrong with that; as we are obliged to pay taxes too (unless your a Democrat nominee for a cabinet position or Chairmen of the House Ways and Means Committee). A “right” is something you can choose to do or not do, as healthcare is today.

  8. My wife’s cousin is a very successful doctor and he told me he loves Medicare as Medicare gives him far less grief than the private insurers.

    Yeah, he wishes Medicare would pay more but there actually is less paperwork and bureaucratic nonsense than working with private insurers.

  9. What the bill will do is require that every American purchase insurance for healthcare. That’s not a right, that’s an obligation hoisted on the American people.

    I expect the injunctions will put a stop to that nonsense. It was a bribe to “Big Insurance” to get their support, but once the beast is through, the Dems will have no reason to go to bat for them — plenty of room left under the bus.

  10. Also, at one time, it took 90% – 95% of our population to feed everyone.

    Now the agricultural sector employs less than 5% of our population.

    Manufacturing has followed a similar trajectory and engineer supply may simply exceed engineer demand, in a world where China and India are producing engineers at a high rate.

  11. engineer supply may simply exceed engineer demand, in a world where China and India are producing engineers at a high rate.

    I cannot speak to engineering, as it is not my field. If the production is at all similar to that of “software developers”, however, then there are no engineers coming out of Asia; only incompetent liars, incapable of actual learning, with bits of parchment falsely declaring them to be engineers.

  12. I recently had a friend complain at length about his $550 after-deductible ER bill from a sports injury. I can understand his exasperation – I feel the same way whenever I get a big bill for anything. However, I got the distinct sense that he did not at all appreciate how much of a miracle he had paid less than a week’s wages for.

  13. It made sense to move jobs to India when engineers there got $25K a year. Now that they are asking for $75K

    Funny how the increased demand for Indian engineers drove up the price. One might almost imagine there might be some kind of “law” about the relationship between the demand for something and the supply of that thing.

    Any thoughts on what such a thing might be called?

  14. Yeah, he wishes Medicare would pay more

    To paraphrase what Rand wrote, this “very successful” Doctor is underappreciated by Medicare. As I said, you don’t have to wait. Thanks for the excellent example, Bill.

  15. I recently had a friend complain at length about his $550 after-deductible ER bill from a sports injury.

    And to think — a scant few generations ago such an injury might have meant a slow, painful death. These days he can force his neighbor to pay for his treatment and act like an ingrate, too! Progress!

  16. “Yeah, he wishes Medicare would pay more but there actually is less paperwork and bureaucratic nonsense than working with private insurers.”

    Have you considered the reasons for this? Namely, that the government gives Medicare effective sovereign immunity while foisting more and more regulations on private insurers, and Medicare just names its price by fiat while private insurers actually have to negotiate.

    “Also, at one time, it took 90% – 95% of our population to feed everyone.

    “Now the agricultural sector employs less than 5% of our population.

    “Manufacturing has followed a similar trajectory and engineer supply may simply exceed engineer demand, in a world where China and India are producing engineers at a high rate.”

    Engineering is qualitatively different than farming or manufacturing, at least until viable AI exists. Farming and manufacturing are physical activities that can be replaced with machines. Engineers, at least for now, are not replaceable by non-human means. I guess you could argue that the demand for innovation is decreasing, but I have not seen evidence of that in my daily life.

  17. McGehee writes:

    “Funny how the increased demand for Indian engineers drove up the price. One might almost imagine there might be some kind of ‘law’ about the relationship between the demand for something and the supply of that thing.

    Any thoughts on what such a thing might be called?”

    ( Jim reads McGehee’s post, puzzles over the question it poses, and scratches head. “A law,” he mutters. “A law involving demand and supply . . . supply and demand . . . what could he be talking about? Damn, I hate these ‘brain-teaser’ type questions!”

  18. I’m with Titus. What we now call an injury, would have meant a permanent disability or death even 60 years ago. How many people do you know with rebuilt knees or who have had a back operation? I’ve got a female cousin who had an ACL repaired after a fall on an icy sidewalk. Without it, she’d be in a wheel chair.

    My mother had an aunt who was a successful women’s clothing designer in NYC in the 1930’s. She had money when many did not. But because she smoked like freight train, drank cup after cup of Italian coffee all day, and she worked 18 hours a day 6 days a week, she had very high blood pressure at age 53.

    Her doctors only suggestion was to sell the business and retire somewhere quiet or she would have a stroke and die.

    Now that’s not a sports injury, but it’s pretty common now and then. And a stroke was next to death 70 years ago. Now we’d get a prescription, change our habits some and go back to work after a long weekend.

    Personally I applaud my doctors and their staffs. They make my life livable. But I feel it’s too expensive, compared to the percentage they KEEP out of the money that goes into their practice. But if my medical care is more expensive and doctors don’t take home the monetary difference, who does?

    Hey, I’ll bet there’s a lawyer or an insurance company involved out there in the middle of this mess!!

  19. Oh I definitely saw this phenomenon when wireless networks and blackberries first came out. The technology had just barely been around and yet when something would disrupt the service exasperated callers would complain that their lives were ruined now. “I CAN’T GET MY BLACKBERRY EMAIL! I CAN’T WORK LIKE THIS!” some would scream. “Do you have a laptop?” I’d ask. “Uh, yea but I’d have to boot it up and keep my Outlook open (*whine whine whine)…..” Oh yea, that’s like living in the stone ages of 1999 all over again. How did we ever manage?

  20. “My wife’s cousin is a very successful doctor and he told me he loves Medicare as Medicare gives him far less grief than the private insurers.”

    So does he see twice as many patients or work for half the money? One would involve inferior care to me.

  21. “So does he see twice as many patients or work for half the money? One would involve inferior care to me.”

    I believe this is called “segmenting the market.”

    You take what you get from Medicare for those patients, and you charge more to people without Medicare.

  22. When I started in Engineering 25 years ago…. there was a hierarchy of design engineers, pcb layout engineers, draftsman , test techs….

    Now a lot of the “apprentice ” liek tasks are automated and the most productive engineers are a lot more productive.

    The engineering schools have not adapted well they still turnout crankturners, and fail to realize the most important skill is creativity.

  23. My wife is in the medical field and she too reports that medicare offers to pay for greater number of days of rehab compared to private insurance. This is NOT inconsistent with the conclusion the gov’t run and financed healthcare is and will be a disaster.

    The bill for the arguably lavish rehab goes to all of us, not to idiot who was snowboarding. Guess where this leads.

    Gov’t run healthcare will be overly lavish in some areas, and needlessly stingy in others, and it will be “universal”, so you’d all better hope that one size fits all circumstances.

  24. Today each and every engineer is roaming here and there on streets searching for a job putting a paper of degree in his pocket.They are suffering a lot but even after getting a proper job after a hard work and hard core interviews they wont realize the reason behind the delay in the success.

  25. The bill for the arguably lavish rehab goes to all of us, not to idiot who was snowboarding. Guess where this leads.
    To laws against snowboarding?

  26. They won’t be laws. Those actually come up for votes. Think regulations and policy determinations instead. Where any single one that’s controversial works exactly like the Christmas pantybomber – ‘oops, the system worked, er, sorta worked, but there’s no one person here we can either fire or even point at to blame. Blame the system! And it wasn’t even my system, the idiot before me made us do it.’

  27. “Today each and every engineer is roaming here and there on streets searching for a job putting a paper of degree in his pocket.They are suffering a lot but even after getting a proper job after a hard work and hard core interviews they wont realize the reason behind the delay in the success.”

    I follow you, but I don’t follow you.

  28. The bill for the arguably lavish rehab goes to all of us, not to idiot who was snowboarding. Guess where this leads.

    To laws against snowboarding?

    Quite possibly. That would be abhorrent, anti-freedom, nanny state crap. Another compelling reasons to be against anti-consequences, socialist healthcare.

  29. That would be abhorrent, anti-freedom, nanny state crap. Another compelling reasons to be against anti-consequences, socialist healthcare.
    Agreed. In fact, I think it’s the compelling reason to be against it.

    Sure, the bill would pooch up the medical system and make everything more expensive, but to my mind those are differences in degree rather than kind. The real danger is that once the government finds itself paying every time someone gets sick or hurt, it will become a matter of “fiscal responsibility” to prevent people from getting sick or hurt, which is yet another reason for the gov to take more control over our lives.

    Whether you’re a commited autocrat or just a garden-variety corruptocrat (I’m convinced the Democrat party is coalition of the two) that’s the greatest story ever sold. Heck, the demagoguery writes itself. I mean who but greedy, evil Repubs and corporations could be against laws that keep people healthier? It’s a right, after all!

Comments are closed.