Whatever happens, I think we’re in for a rough ride. This fall may be the last chance to stave off real catastrophe.
14 thoughts on “How Cloward-Piven”
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Whatever happens, I think we’re in for a rough ride. This fall may be the last chance to stave off real catastrophe.
Comments are closed.
Cloward-Piven is based on the notion that those not included in the Leftist cognoscenti (i.e., 98% of the population) will meekly accept whatever treatment the government chooses to apply to them. I do not think that this is necessarily the case.
…how in blazes is it then possible to further increase the size of government to provide everyone the same pay every year?
It’s not. This misses the point and suggests where the analysis fails. The point he misses is we already have a welfare state that is accepted as the norm. We already have a large percentage of people that are willing to accept the government demagoguery not only without question, but with violent support.
Creating a failed state is a success for the strategy. It’s the whole point. It leaves the elites in charge with the rabble only with the power the elite grant them. If this weakness leads to being overrun by another country, that’s not a problem for the elites either since they have no allegiance to the nation.
We’ve allowed stolen elections like Franken and others, cherry picking and dead voters not a problem. More votes than voters? No problem. Now they have a slush fund bigger than any we could have imagined. The mood of this country should make a correction in November, but what if it doesn’t? After the election, is it business as usual? Or worse as the trends indicate? The country can’t afford it.
Creating a failed state is a success for the strategy. It’s the whole point. It leaves the elites in charge with the rabble only with the power the elite grant them. If this weakness leads to being overrun by another country, that’s not a problem for the elites either since they have no allegiance to the nation.
The self-designated “elites” forget something – they can easily find themselves swinging at the end of a rope or the receiving end of a firing squad if they push it much further.
they can easily find themselves swinging at the end of a rope or the receiving end of a firing squad if they push it much further.
Larry, you and I might support that outcome, but don’t expect enough others to. People disbelieve reality. They won’t believe it.
Ken,
They don’t have to support it, they just have to stay out of the way. That is the way things have tended to be historically.
The great masses hunker-down and the ones with the fire in their bellies carry the day.
What’s most likely in the event of a Cloward -Piven collapse is a military dictatorship. If a CP disaster does ever take place, the only arm of the Federal govt to hold together (or hold together the longest) will be the military. Remember, it’s an all volunteer force, and it has better discipline than a draftee army. If nothing else, the troops in the combat units may stay together simply for self-protection or not wanting to desert their friends, and if, at the time of the collapse there’s a Petraeus or Lee type figure around, then it could be Man on a White Horse Time. Or would he have his M1 tank painted white? The question then would be this: would the surviving elements of the U.S. military, after they restore order, restore democracy along with it, or would the generals and admirals decide they like being in complete control?
Perhaps Michael, but the American military is trained to support civilian authority… which will be those we have now. We elected a president even during the civil war which encourages me to think this boat might right itself even as far as it has tipped over.
That doesn’t do anything about the financial disaster we already have, but cutting spending should eventually follow.
Frankly, I doubt that electing Republicans or so-called “Tea Partiers” will improve things very much. Consider this piece:
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2010/apr/01/00006/
Or this piece: http://amconmag.com/article/2010/aug/01/00035/
My personal fear is that we, as a nation, are on the express line for both a civil war and economic collapse. The lights are going out, and neither major party really cares about it, as long as they are themselves protected.
All of the neo-con groups are estatic over the prospects of the Repubs regaining control of both the House and Senate.The paleo-cons are a lot more realistic, I think, on this subject. Does anyone really expect that things will change, other than the groups that benefit from the congressional largess? When Gingrich is a leading candidate for the nomination in 2012, despite his ultimately dismal record as Speaker of the House?
I stopped believing in the Easter Bunny a long time ago. Although, come to think of it, maybe it is easier to believe in the Bunny than restraint in government spending.
To quote Allen Drury’s title of his American collapse novel, “Come Nineveh, Come Tyre.” President Jason is running the country.
…the Tea Party is nothing more than a Republican-managed tantrum.
Interesting articles Don, but the cluelessness of most tea party observers is apparent.
The tea party isn’t a politically party at all, in the traditional sense. It doesn’t have a specific platform. “We the people” tired of only hearing and seeing nonsense are now active and will continue to be. They will compromise to get Scott Brown to take Kennedy’s seat but will get mad as hell where and when ever the republicans try to install a big spending ‘conservative’ over a fiscal conservative. We may see more republicans endorse democrats like NY23, but that’s what it takes to get the rats to leave the ship. Tea is not going away or being absorbed no matter how much the establishment would like that to happen. People have been angry about government for decades and have now found like minded people and are able to do something about it. They can spot those that are not genuine where the reverse is not true.
Does anyone really expect that things will change, other than the groups that benefit from the congressional largess?
Yes.
At some point, you have to work with what you have in order to make credible change (real change, not Obamachange (TM)), not angst over your powerlessness.
When Gingrich is a leading candidate for the nomination in 2012, despite his ultimately dismal record as Speaker of the House?
It’s worth keeping in mind that there are three candidates ahead of Gingrich on Intrade (Romney, Thune, and Palin) and Pawlenty is trading at the same level as Gingrich.
For now — but remember, the Left has been agitating to bring back the draft for years because it would motivate young people to vote for allegedly anti-war Leftist candidates.
The left will write a draft bill, then not vote for it. That’ll work.
Also remember that we might end getting into a “just” war. In which case, the draft is, of course, “necessary”. Looking briefly at the history of conscription in the US, it appears to me that the last major draft by a Republican president was by Abraham Lincoln in the Civil War. In comparison, there have been four major conscriptions by Democrat presidents (in the two world wars, Korean War, and the Vietnam War).
A related thing, stop-loss (the contractual agreement to involuntarily retain military personnel past expiration of their active-duty service) seems to me to be overused especially over the last decade, but it isn’t as subject to abuse as conscription (after all, if government abuses stop-loss, then they suffer a decline in military enlistment).
My view is that if the US continued to vote for politicians in the mold of Obama, then we’ll probably see more such drafts, as incompetent politicians get us into large wars. These drafts won’t happen to score a political point.
Rangel tried to get a draft bill and it was a joke when he wouldn’t even vote for his own bill. The success of an all volunteer army is so obvious that nobody can deny it. The fact that they would bring up such a bill tells you all you need to know about those rats.
Is there any scenario where a draft could occur? I don’t think so. A war of that scale would be over in about 42 minutes.
If our existence were threatened, half the country would volunteer. The other half would be the reason our existence is threatened.