When the Augustine report said it would take $3 billion/year to get Constellation back on track was that just for Ares I or for the whole Constellation program?
Maybe they meant the money spent on the 5 segment SRB development?
“only $1 billion”.. only when referring to a $10B rocket that duplicates existing rockets, does that usage make any sense.
$1 billion seems to be a lot less than the numbers people have been throwing around about Ares I costs. It made me wonder if people were conflating Ares I costs and Constellation costs.
Duplicating existing rocket capabilities seemed to be the stated strategy, sadly Ares I is significantly more expensive to develop than the commercial alternatives.
Yes, to-date there has been $10B spent on Ares I.. it was $9B last year.. thus $1B, this year.
The estimated total cost up to the first flight of Ares I is $30B.
BTW, in regards to the nepotism.. is there any actual *laws* against a conflict of interest like that? I mean, it seems pretty obvious to *everyone*.
Wodun,
I think it is safe to call something pork when you have zipcode engineering going on. Ie when something is supported less for the end result, then for the amount of warm bodies located in specific zip codes that the project requires. Ie a focus more on inputs than outputs.
~Jon
Yes, to-date there has been $10B spent on Ares I.. it was $9B last year.. thus $1B, this year.
That makes sense, what with $500m spent on the 1-X test flight alone. As soon as I had hit “submit” I knew I was way off base.
Great article, Rand. All of the points are great, but the one that I think should be turned around on the critics of private companies is that one private company has developed two entire classes of orbital launch vehicle, on its own, in eight years. NASA has tried to develop at least three since 1980, and has failed every time.
Ahh, nice catch their Trent and MFK really crystallizes the whole debate on public vs private, $400 million spent on Falcon and $10 billion spent on Ares I.
It would be hard to argue those companies could have done it without government as a customer but over time they wont sink or swim based on how much business government throws their way.
Pork will be back just substitute NASA for New Space. New Space is exactly that new, but soon it will be business as usual with congresspeople steering contracts and tax subsidies toward companies in the districts.
“It is just as easy to argue contracting to private companies as pork. When does government spending become pork? “
Wodrun, whenever there isn’t (a) open bids, and (b) at least five companies competing with a viable shot at actually winning. That does mean that sometimes you end up with unavoidable pork, but it should be a cluebat to the antitrust folks to stop allowing mergers in that area.
Good point Al.
Apparently 3 words was to short and the forum wouldn’t post my comment. I bet that doesn’t happen often.
If we agree that a US government buyer is necessary to spurn commercial space launch sooner rather than later, and that is an essential step forward to actually doing something productive in space, then it’s time we faced the music and consider our other priorities.
Let Congress build her rocket. Carve what commercial requires out of the rest of the budget.
NASA has operated many years without an authorization bill with no discernible negative impact on its performance
Well done. No comments over at NRO?
It is just as easy to argue contracting to private companies as pork. When does government spending become pork?
Anyone have any insight as to why this Spaceflight Now article said that only $1 billion had been spent on the Ares I so far?
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1008/31dm2/
When the Augustine report said it would take $3 billion/year to get Constellation back on track was that just for Ares I or for the whole Constellation program?
Maybe they meant the money spent on the 5 segment SRB development?
“only $1 billion”.. only when referring to a $10B rocket that duplicates existing rockets, does that usage make any sense.
$1 billion seems to be a lot less than the numbers people have been throwing around about Ares I costs. It made me wonder if people were conflating Ares I costs and Constellation costs.
Duplicating existing rocket capabilities seemed to be the stated strategy, sadly Ares I is significantly more expensive to develop than the commercial alternatives.
Yes, to-date there has been $10B spent on Ares I.. it was $9B last year.. thus $1B, this year.
The estimated total cost up to the first flight of Ares I is $30B.
BTW, in regards to the nepotism.. is there any actual *laws* against a conflict of interest like that? I mean, it seems pretty obvious to *everyone*.
Wodun,
I think it is safe to call something pork when you have zipcode engineering going on. Ie when something is supported less for the end result, then for the amount of warm bodies located in specific zip codes that the project requires. Ie a focus more on inputs than outputs.
~Jon
Yes, to-date there has been $10B spent on Ares I.. it was $9B last year.. thus $1B, this year.
That makes sense, what with $500m spent on the 1-X test flight alone. As soon as I had hit “submit” I knew I was way off base.
Great article, Rand. All of the points are great, but the one that I think should be turned around on the critics of private companies is that one private company has developed two entire classes of orbital launch vehicle, on its own, in eight years. NASA has tried to develop at least three since 1980, and has failed every time.
Ahh, nice catch their Trent and MFK really crystallizes the whole debate on public vs private, $400 million spent on Falcon and $10 billion spent on Ares I.
It would be hard to argue those companies could have done it without government as a customer but over time they wont sink or swim based on how much business government throws their way.
Pork will be back just substitute NASA for New Space. New Space is exactly that new, but soon it will be business as usual with congresspeople steering contracts and tax subsidies toward companies in the districts.
“It is just as easy to argue contracting to private companies as pork. When does government spending become pork? “
Wodrun, whenever there isn’t (a) open bids, and (b) at least five companies competing with a viable shot at actually winning. That does mean that sometimes you end up with unavoidable pork, but it should be a cluebat to the antitrust folks to stop allowing mergers in that area.
Good point Al.
Apparently 3 words was to short and the forum wouldn’t post my comment. I bet that doesn’t happen often.
If we agree that a US government buyer is necessary to spurn commercial space launch sooner rather than later, and that is an essential step forward to actually doing something productive in space, then it’s time we faced the music and consider our other priorities.
Let Congress build her rocket. Carve what commercial requires out of the rest of the budget.
NASA has operated many years without an authorization bill with no discernible negative impact on its performance
Heh.