The bubble cannot really pop until an accredidation system is created that gives equal weight to the knowledge acquired by novel means (online coursework, YouTube lectures, etc.) is given equal weight with traditional lecture halls.
After all, knowledge is knowledge, and if you know your stuff it shouldn’t matter where you learned it.
But until that changes colleges will have a monopoly on the “credential”, which (like it or hate it) is a necessary thing these days into almost any job category.
Brock,
[[[The bubble cannot really pop until an accredidation system is created that gives equal weight to the knowledge acquired by novel means (online coursework, YouTube lectures, etc.) is given equal weight with traditional lecture halls.]]]
The regional accreditation agencies, as well as those in specific fields, have been accrediting online programs for over a decade, and accrediting them based on outcome assessments, not inputs. And I speak from experience being part of the team that created the first AACSB accredited online MBA in 2005.
The traditional lecture hall is basically considered an endangered species outside of the Elite universities and the state flagship schools. Indeed, in the department I currently chair the vast majority of students take their classes online, while the remaining students are taught using Interactive Video systems. None are taught in traditional lecture halls….
And although we don’t use Youtube, due to copyright issues from textbook publishers and federal regulations on student privacy, the classes do use streaming videos within the course management system. Indeed, most course management systems had a video component available long before youtube. I remember well scripting and recording video lectures over a decade ago for a Masters in Ecommerce program I taught in.
Thomas,
I’ve read that several online universities cannot get accredited directly and have been forced to find colleges that will accept their classes for credit at that school. The accreditation process described sounded very “input” driven rather than skill driven. This is recent.
What do you mean by “regional”? Is there a national accreditation that’s better, or more widely accepted? Who accredits Harvard and Princeton? On what grounds?
As an example, what would it take to accredit the math courses at Khan Academy?
Brock,
The U.S Department of Education recognizes 6 regional accreditation agencies for financial aid purposes as while as several national ones. This webpage is a good over view of accreditation and associated issues.
There are also accreditation groups for specialty areas like business. Although not necessary for financial aid, they are seen as a way of positioning your program as a quality program.
There are three reasons for accreditation. First, to provide a measure of the quality of the degree issued. If the school is accredited it means it meets the minimum standards of the accrediting agency.
The second is to allow portability of courses. If took classes at one accredited university and decide to go to another one with the same level of accreditation the class are easy to transfer.
The third is for purposes of financial aid. Its a way the federal government has of ensuring the school is real and not simply a mechanism to get money from the government.
Then different states also have their own requirements for higher education. Some like Oregon are very strict, others like Arizona are lax.
The inputs are relative to outputs. You define your mission relative to the needs of the community you serve and then demonstrate by different measures, both inputs and outputs, how you satisfy those needs. It varies by the accrediting agency what the requirements are.
In terms of Khan Academy I don’t know the specifics of why they have not sought accreditation. A quick look at the website would seem to indicate they would have the sources to seek it if they wished.
The story that Harvard University is not accredited is a urban myth. Its accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges, the regional accreditation agency for Massachusetts and was one of the universities that set the standards for NEASC.
Princeton is accredited by the Middle States Commission of Higher Education and has been since MSCHE was created in 1921.
The goals of accreditation may be noble, but the reality stinks.
Classes should not be accredited because they don’t really serve to identify practical value in providing worthwhile knowledge.
Individual ability should be because that’s what employers need to know.
Accreditation should come from an independent organization unrelated to any educational institution.
There are problems with that as well, but a certificate from an independent organization that was recognized as solid would give employers something real in judging a potential employee. Something lacking from many college degrees. A certificate could also require working knowledge rather than just book learnin’.
I also should mention it would lower the cost of education since it would lower the bar for competition. Competition being good in all cases.
Ken,
[[[Accreditation should come from an independent organization unrelated to any educational institution.]]]
The accreditation organizations are independent of institutions so your statement makes no sense. And anyone may start a new one.
For example in the 1990’s the ABSCP was created as a new accrediting organization because many business schools were not going for AACSB accreditation (only about 5% globally achieve its standards…) because the standards were felt to be too slanted towards research driven business schools.
Also no law prevents an employer hiring someone with a degree from a non-accredited school. But most just take the easy way and go with those with degrees from accredited schools because they don’t need to determine the quality by themselves.
Where accrediting matters is for state licensing. For example in most states, but NOT all, you need a degree from an ABA Accredited law school to take the bar exam. For example, anyone with a law degree may take the bar exam in California, even if the school is not ABA accredited.
Some states also required accreditation, or to be a candidate for accreditation, before a school is allowed to call itself a college or university, but again, its a state licensing issue.
The key advantage of accreditation is that you are only able to received financial aid if your school is accredited.
The other is that you are easily able to transfer credits from one school to the next.
The bubble cannot really pop until an accredidation system is created that gives equal weight to the knowledge acquired by novel means (online coursework, YouTube lectures, etc.) is given equal weight with traditional lecture halls.
After all, knowledge is knowledge, and if you know your stuff it shouldn’t matter where you learned it.
But until that changes colleges will have a monopoly on the “credential”, which (like it or hate it) is a necessary thing these days into almost any job category.
Brock,
[[[The bubble cannot really pop until an accredidation system is created that gives equal weight to the knowledge acquired by novel means (online coursework, YouTube lectures, etc.) is given equal weight with traditional lecture halls.]]]
The regional accreditation agencies, as well as those in specific fields, have been accrediting online programs for over a decade, and accrediting them based on outcome assessments, not inputs. And I speak from experience being part of the team that created the first AACSB accredited online MBA in 2005.
The traditional lecture hall is basically considered an endangered species outside of the Elite universities and the state flagship schools. Indeed, in the department I currently chair the vast majority of students take their classes online, while the remaining students are taught using Interactive Video systems. None are taught in traditional lecture halls….
And although we don’t use Youtube, due to copyright issues from textbook publishers and federal regulations on student privacy, the classes do use streaming videos within the course management system. Indeed, most course management systems had a video component available long before youtube. I remember well scripting and recording video lectures over a decade ago for a Masters in Ecommerce program I taught in.
Thomas,
I’ve read that several online universities cannot get accredited directly and have been forced to find colleges that will accept their classes for credit at that school. The accreditation process described sounded very “input” driven rather than skill driven. This is recent.
What do you mean by “regional”? Is there a national accreditation that’s better, or more widely accepted? Who accredits Harvard and Princeton? On what grounds?
As an example, what would it take to accredit the math courses at Khan Academy?
Brock,
The U.S Department of Education recognizes 6 regional accreditation agencies for financial aid purposes as while as several national ones. This webpage is a good over view of accreditation and associated issues.
http://www2.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html
There are also accreditation groups for specialty areas like business. Although not necessary for financial aid, they are seen as a way of positioning your program as a quality program.
There are three reasons for accreditation. First, to provide a measure of the quality of the degree issued. If the school is accredited it means it meets the minimum standards of the accrediting agency.
The second is to allow portability of courses. If took classes at one accredited university and decide to go to another one with the same level of accreditation the class are easy to transfer.
The third is for purposes of financial aid. Its a way the federal government has of ensuring the school is real and not simply a mechanism to get money from the government.
Then different states also have their own requirements for higher education. Some like Oregon are very strict, others like Arizona are lax.
The inputs are relative to outputs. You define your mission relative to the needs of the community you serve and then demonstrate by different measures, both inputs and outputs, how you satisfy those needs. It varies by the accrediting agency what the requirements are.
In terms of Khan Academy I don’t know the specifics of why they have not sought accreditation. A quick look at the website would seem to indicate they would have the sources to seek it if they wished.
The story that Harvard University is not accredited is a urban myth. Its accredited by the New England Association of Schools and Colleges, the regional accreditation agency for Massachusetts and was one of the universities that set the standards for NEASC.
Princeton is accredited by the Middle States Commission of Higher Education and has been since MSCHE was created in 1921.
The goals of accreditation may be noble, but the reality stinks.
Classes should not be accredited because they don’t really serve to identify practical value in providing worthwhile knowledge.
Individual ability should be because that’s what employers need to know.
Accreditation should come from an independent organization unrelated to any educational institution.
There are problems with that as well, but a certificate from an independent organization that was recognized as solid would give employers something real in judging a potential employee. Something lacking from many college degrees. A certificate could also require working knowledge rather than just book learnin’.
I also should mention it would lower the cost of education since it would lower the bar for competition. Competition being good in all cases.
Ken,
[[[Accreditation should come from an independent organization unrelated to any educational institution.]]]
The accreditation organizations are independent of institutions so your statement makes no sense. And anyone may start a new one.
For example in the 1990’s the ABSCP was created as a new accrediting organization because many business schools were not going for AACSB accreditation (only about 5% globally achieve its standards…) because the standards were felt to be too slanted towards research driven business schools.
Also no law prevents an employer hiring someone with a degree from a non-accredited school. But most just take the easy way and go with those with degrees from accredited schools because they don’t need to determine the quality by themselves.
Where accrediting matters is for state licensing. For example in most states, but NOT all, you need a degree from an ABA Accredited law school to take the bar exam. For example, anyone with a law degree may take the bar exam in California, even if the school is not ABA accredited.
Some states also required accreditation, or to be a candidate for accreditation, before a school is allowed to call itself a college or university, but again, its a state licensing issue.
The key advantage of accreditation is that you are only able to received financial aid if your school is accredited.
The other is that you are easily able to transfer credits from one school to the next.