Nov06
The Republic is lost.
Ben Franklin weeps.
We now get to look forward to four more years of watching this narcissist.
[Update a few minutes later]
OK, that was a little overdramatic. Let’s think about how to take a beating.
[Update a few minutes later]
OK, the Romney campaign is not yet conceding, and Karl Rove is risible on the call.
Thats it. Going Galt, I don’t need to support these morons any more.
I went Galt a long time ago. I don’t need to serve these dimwits.
Hi Rand, hows the evening? About to crack the bubbly here myself
Actually, there remains some dispute.
But you know what I wouldn’t do if Romney won? Troll Democrat web sites and gloat.
But then, you’ve always been a scumbag.
Trolling? Just saying hi old friend.
I’m sorry, I apologize.
To actual bags of scum.
Speaking of real scumbags, I’m sorry to see that, as expected, Bill Nelson won reelection.
Ah, you’re so sweet.
Don’t blame me…
Galt??? I’m going to mars. Who’s with me?
It’s hard to tell on the legislative side. But look like Republicans might have lost a little ground there in the Senate.
As of now Ohio is 49.2 Obama and 49.2 Romney with 80% of Fl vote counting, that’s close.
Correction, that’s for Oh vote not Fl vote.
Fl vote: 49.9 O 49.3 R for 96% of Fl vote.
Well with CO and NV Obama doesn’t actually need OH, and while he’ll get it, it really doesn’t matter.
Gosh! Does that mean Nate Silver and Sam Wang were right? Heavens!
Update: 49.5 Romney, 49.0 Obama Ohio with 82% vote.
Congratulations to Obama may his next four years be better than his last and hopefully the divisions exploited in his campaign are not a blueprint for the future.
If the early projections are upheld, the democrat fraud machine has stolen another election, and I’m declaring this country a shambling zombie corpse of its former self.
If the early projections are overturned, several impoverished minority democrat dominated communities are going to explode.
This may be the First Day of the rest of the Zombie Apocalypse.
I haven’t heard anything about widespread fraud–I think that there actually are a big enough percentage of the population that don’t mind the direction we’re headed.
That can’t be fixed. I guess chaos always wins.
Well, our little Obama bundler Elon Musk surely backed the right horse. Him and Hanks. Too bad. Doesn’t make one want go really have much to do with them, but then, they are the ones with power and friends, aren’t they? Under the normal course of things, they win, we lose. The liberals do as they will, the conservatives suffer as they must.
But I do genuinely hope the next Dragon falls flat on its rear.
Elon Musk isn’t a “bundler” for anyone except Dana Rohrabacher. And Dragon is the only near-term hope of eliminating our dependence on Russia to get humans into space.
So the Bush Administration brought Elon Musk into doing government work so in the future, when a democrat becomes president, Musk can bundle for him?
Gosh Professor Gas Can … i didn’t see any of that .. thanks for the insight.
It’s not the end of the country. It’s just the next act in a cyclic drama, to which we are a captive audience.
We’ve been here before, with FDR. The economy will continue to languish well below its potential, and the rest of the world will go to hell in a handbasket. In the end, a worldwide conflagration will bring resolution and renewal, before the whole cycle begins anew.
We, as a species, are just too stupid to learn from our mistakes, and there is no escape from the cycle.
Yeah, Crazy Eddie takes the garbage collectors out on strike for better working conditions… sigh.
No one has “been here before.” There has never been a country as broke as the United States. And now we get to go into a death spiral that has no precedent in human history.
We’re really fucked…
There has never been a country as broke as the United States.
Japan’s public debt is over 200% of GDP. Germany’s is about 80%. Ours is about 70%. It was over 100% in 1946, and no death spiral ensued.
Unemployment is a pressing problem. Debt isn’t.
You can always spin it. Why not acknowledge it is true in absolute terms?
I’ve read that just a freeze on spending could cure the debt problem. What do you think the chance of that is now? (It wasn’t much better if Mitt had won.)
Why not acknowledge it is true in absolute terms?
Absolute terms aren’t very useful. In fact, we might not have the biggest debt in absolute terms — consider the debt of the Weimar Republic under hyperinflation. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was measured in the trillions, in absolute terms, but that isn’t very interesting.
I don’t think there’s much chance of a spending freeze; it’d constrict demand, slowing the recovery, and possibly trigger a recession.
If you look at the last two reporting months for the producer price index:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm
You will see a huge jump in aug and sept, the last two reporting months. There was falling prices that offset it so for the year we are only at around 3% .. but if this trend continues and you see producer prices rising 1.1 – 1.7 per month you are looking at inflation levels like we saw in the late 70′s early 80′s.
I highly doubt you can retire the debt with a freeze on spending. You need to tax at a rate that generates tax revenues above what you are spending. You can not retire debt unless you are generating a surplus in revenues over current spending. The last time the U.S. generated an actual surplus it was deemed almost criminal to be over taxing americans like that. Two tax cuts quickly followed that immediately reversed the generated surpluses. What a freeze would do is lower the percentage of debt to GDP and lower the debt service amount. (as long as interest on the debt is constant)
You don’t have to actually retire the debt; we are still paying for WWII. You just have to grow the economy faster than you grow the debt. That isn’t too hard if the economy is healthy and you avoid big wars.
“There has never been a country as broke as the United States.”
Ha! That really is too funny. You are not a student of history – or even current world events, I see. You have never experienced (or read about) runaway inflation, and a complete breakdown of a country. I could give examples, but you would most likely not listen to any of them.
Break out of the FOX news reality bubble – for your own good. Statements such as the one above proves that you need to widen your horizons.
I think this puts to rest the idea that his first election was because people didn’t know him. A good half of this country knows him well and likes what it sees.
The American experiment is over. Make your plans accordingly.
Yes, I have to agree with that. Unfortunately, there is nowhere left to go. This country is where everyone fled to in order to escape what we’re about to become.
Free people have to flee from tyranny regardless of the cost. Otherwise there will never be enough people to oppose it. That shining city needs a new secure hill.
That’s why I’m serious about colonizing mars. That’s why I propose the only plan I know of that makes it possible for a free people to go and remain free when they get there. Yeah, I understand it doesn’t pass the laugh test today, but in ten years it will be a viable option. People have to start thinking about it in terms of liberty rather than technology.
Consider whether it’s easier to fix a broken America full of stupid people or take our struggle to a new desert? Yeah, it’s a tough environment, but not too tough for a true independent people with the right stuff (which America no longer is.) Freedom works. I intend to draft a new settlement charter / constitution that is more explicit of that point. I encourage others to help. It will have no commerce clause and as little wiggle room as I can come up with. Perhaps it’s meaningless. I do not know.
Do we just let the tyrants win?
Do we just let the tyrants win?
Yep.
What choice do we have? Are we supposed to shoot a cop or something? How is that going to help?
Look, my friend, you have got to realize that white traditionalists are no longer in the majority in the USA. The people have spoken, and what they spoke in favor of is multiculturalism, license, and socialism.
We trads do not represent the Rousseaian “general will”. We are now breakers. We are enemies of the American people and the federal entity. Just as the Stalinists and their allies legitimately won the elections in Spain in 1931 and 1933, the American people now back the Revolution and its elected agents. Americans by and large want more government, more checks from Uncle Sam, more homosexuality, more reparations for slavery, more taxes. America wants this. And, short of a right-wing military coup à la Spain, July 1936, nothing is going to stop them from getting what they want.
Unfortunately, unlike Spain in July 1936, we have no Franco.
So yes: the tyrants win. And there is nothing we can do about it.
Want to fight? Turn off your computer and go marry yourself a nice white lady and have as many white children as you can. Raise them as traditionalist Christians and cultivate them in the grand tradition of Western thought. In the end, the only weapon that will really hurt the party of abortion, contraception, perversion, and atheism is love — love of of God, family, and neighbor.
Yep. It’s not so hot for traditionalists of any color. I certainly can’t keep everything in stasis for four more years hoping for some respite — life is too short! I’ll take this as a sign to cash-out and move on. /shrug
Values don’t come with skin color.
Need to focus on spreading values not seed.
wodun: Values don’t come with skin color.
No, but that’s the way to bet.
“All men are created equal”: an admirable sentiment. Unfortunately, however, it does not track with reality as observed. Detroit vs. Pittsburgh. Denmark vs. Nigeria. Apartheid South Africa vs. South Africa today. Rhodesia vs. Zimbabwe.
America pre-1964 vs America now.
If it makes you uncomfortable to stare these facts in the face, I sympathize. Doing so makes me uncomfortable, too. We have all been carefully trained to avert our eyes from the truth, to cast about frantically for explanations rather than believe what we see every day.
But I refuse to take refuge in the comfort of platitudes. I insist on facing the truth, no matter how ugly, unpleasant, or “racist’” the truth may be.
And I can do that — today. Today, stating the truth is merely offensive. Today, I’m a mere “racist”.
Soon, however, it will become illegal.
I look forward to becoming a thought criminal.
Rand,
Recently, you and I discussed the need for condemnation. You called on Muslims to be quicker to condemn misogyny coming from fellow Muslims. I brought up the case of a Hasidic enclave that was declining to report child molesters to the authorities. I said that I, as a secular Jew, saw no need to jump up and condemn them because no one could reasonably confuse me with them, but if anyone wanted to know, then yes, of course, I strenuously condemn them as utterly horrible.
What is your position on Bruce Lewis’ racism? Do you condemn it?
I always condemn racism, but I don’t find his comments any more reprehensible than the racist notion that (for instance) black people aren’t capable of getting photo IDs.
As I think you know, the notion regarding photo IDs is that the people who will have the most trouble getting photo IDs are people who are urban, elderly and not spry, poor, and uneducated.
Having all four of those characteristics doesn’t prevent someone from getting a photo ID, it just makes it more difficult, and increases the odds that they won’t do it. People with all four of those characteristics are disproportionately voters who vote for the Democratic Party (hence the partisanship), and people will all four of those characteristics are disproportionately African American (hence the relevance to racial issues).
As Jim and I discussed here recently, Democrats are in favor of going to the trouble (spending tax dollars) to make sure every eligible voter in the United States has an up to date photo ID, and thereafter requiring such IDs at polling places. Democrats and Republicans are probably in agreement that there is a disturbing “show us your papers” aspect to such requirements, but there is also agreement between Democrats and Republicans that voter fraud must be prevented.
The disagreement is over how much trouble (how much public expenditure) should be dedicated to ensure that every eligible voter can meet the requirements, and thus not suppress the vote. There is already agreement about preventing voter fraud. If the Republicans and Democrats can agree on how to not make it harder for every eligible voter to vote, there would be no controversy.
I tried to lay out a liberal point of view. I think there is no racism in the above argument. I feel that likening my point of view to Bruce Lewis’ disgusting display of racism is completely unfair and unfounded.
You are quick to criticize my comments, and I very much appreciate it. Too bad you aren’t willing to directly criticize Bruce Lewis’ outright racism.
I also don’t find his views more reprehensible than the notion that blacks can’t get admitted to college, or hired, unless they get special treatment. That is racist. It is bigotry.
If I convinced you that my views on voter ID laws are not racist, then I’d be happy to change the subject and discuss college admissions and hiring practices and affirmative action programs in general. Otherwise, I’d rather not change the subject until we get done with Voter ID laws. Or we can discuss them in parallel. Whatever you want. I just don’t want to drop the voter ID issue entirely if you think I’m being a racist about voter ID laws, because I don’t want to be thought of as a racist.
Your criticism of Bruce Lewis is tepid at best, as if you didn’t really want to criticize someone who is proud of being a racist.
Furthermore, you’d be disgusted if a Muslim, confronted with some other Muslim’s misogyny, said to you “Well, I don’t find my fellow Muslim’s misogyny any more reprehensible than ….”. You’d rightly feel that the Muslim was changing the subject.
If I convinced you that my views on voter ID laws are not racist, then I’d be happy to change the subject and discuss college admissions and hiring practices and affirmative action programs in general.
What type of incentive is that? Rand has to agree with you in order for you to talk about something else? Are you really that stupid?
Leland, my very next words were “Otherwise, I’d rather not change the subject until we get done with Voter ID laws. Or we can discuss them in parallel. Whatever you want. I just don’t want to drop the voter ID issue entirely”
Rand doesn’t have to agree with me. I’ve just noticed that we get to the point in the conversation where a fairminded person would say “Well, you’re right about that, but what about this other thing”, Rand doesn’t concede any points, he’ll just say “But what about this other thing?”
You haven’t made a point he’s willing to concede. And you are one hell of a hypocrit if you’re accusing Rand of changing topics to avoid discussion.
Leland,
I’ve never changed topics to avoid discussion, although I understand that you think that’s what frequently happens (that’s what you mean when you say “squirrel!” , etc). I have no idea how to disabuse you of this notion, other than to suggest that you engage in conversation about a topic, instead of engaging in conversation about the conversation, as you are doing here, and as you frequently do when you reply to me.
Here’s what you aren’t talking about:
1) Voter ID laws — did you find my argument non-racist or not?
2) The need (or lack of a need) to condemn outrageously horrible sentiments — do Muslims need to condemn other Muslims bad behavior, and if so, does Rand need to condemn Bruce Lewis’ blatant racism?
3) Bruce Lewis — I find it telling that you felt the need to criticize me, but you didn’t find the need to criticize Bruce Lewis’ racism? Do you agree with his racist views?
I actually find Bruce’s forthright approach refreshing, as opposed to the pious and sanctimonious (and hypocritical) bigotry from the left, with their ongoing false charges of racism as anything with which they disagree, to shut down the debate.
Bruce has many politically incorrect views, and commenters here are free to hold such. Some commenters take advantage of this freedom very liberally.
That’s sad. There are lots of people, all over the world, who hold utterly despicable views, and are quite forthright about it. The Taliban are forthright. I don’t find them refreshing. In this country, we have the KKK. A forthright bunch, but not very refreshing. Well, to me at least. Sounds like Bruce would find them refreshing. I’d like think better of you.
I don’t think that Bruce said anything that’s comparable to the Taliban. Or even the KKK. He simply expressed a preference for his own race.
No, he didn’t. Scroll up. Read what he wrote. Not on some other thread. Right here, on this page.
I did read what he wrote. I didn’t see any advocacy of lynching.
To be more clear: He didn’t “simply” (merely) express a preference for his own race. Just in this thread, one of the less he denied that all men are created equal. He then lists a bunch of countries, as a fallacious argument for why race is somehow linked with political & economic success (as if the communists didn’t demonstrate that oppression and economic failure are color blind, while many other countries have demonstrated that freedom, including free and prosperous markets, is also color blind). Lewis’ views aren’t a call for lynching, but they aren’t a simple preference for his “race” either.
I’m not saying that you should censor him. I’m making a point about condemnation, in view of the discussion about condemnation we had earlier regarding Muslims. I think Lewis’ views should be condemned, and I note that a) you didn’t immediately condemn them, and you’re still equivocating about condemning them.
Sorry, a sentence gotten eaten. I meant to say that this thread is one of the less egregiously racist threads Lewis has participated in.
But we needn’t look to other threads – this one is sufficient for making it clear where everyone stands.
Nice try, Bob. But I’m not afraid of being called a racist any more. You will find that more and more white people have similarly lost this fear.
Face it, my friend: you shot your wad. You used your nuke. You called me a racist — yet here I stand, unmoved. What have you got left with which to attack me? Nothing. Your puny weapons have no effect upon me.
Your day is over, Bob. You and your ideological compatriots no longer have the ability to bully us into silence with name-calling. You and your fellow Jacobins no longer have to power to whip up torch-bearing mobs by putting words in our mouths. Your days as Witchfynder General are over.
You are done. I dismiss you. Now go be a douche somewhere else.
Texas is the place to go. Or Alaska.
Both have the natural resources and attitude to become self sufficient.
Demographics is destiny. Based on the exit poll results, I fear America has already passed the tipping point and there may be no going back. When you have 47+% of Americans who pay no income tax added to millions of federal, state and local government employees, they appear to constitute the new majority. As such, they’ll vote for people who’ll promise them ever more free stuff (and lavish pensions for the government employees). If my pessimistic outlook is correct, America is on an inevitable slide to European-style mediocrity. I fear for my grandchildren’s future. They’re likely to curse all our names. At least in Colorado, they’ll be able to buy pot to numb their pain.
Exactly right. Reality must be faced. We need a hundred year plan to counter this.
I agree that the GOP faces a demographic challenge, but it isn’t about who gets stuff from the government. The demographic that receives the largest share of federal spending, and pays the lowest income tax burden — senior citizens — voted most strongly for Romney. The GOP’s problem is that their best voters are old white people, and their worst are young minorities. As time marches on the former group is shrinking, and the latter is growing.
IIRC it was Socrates who claimed that a democracy can only last as long as it takes the people to realize that they can vote themselves everything they want.
This probably has something to do with why we were set up as a republic and opposed democracies.
Frank, just get ready to rebuild from the ashes, if you care. Your classical ideas are no longer desired here.
Truth has no expiration date.
Tell that to the kids out there celebrating all the free money they think they’ll get.
“Ben Franklin weeps.”
I doubt a single Obama voter cares about this dead racist, sexist, homophobe. He’d be a climate denier, too, but he died too soon.
I doubt a single Obama voter cares.
That’s all you had to say.
Well I was totally wrong on this one. I thought and said Romney would win in a landslide.
The GOP can feel good about holding the House. They did so thanks to their big 2010 wins in state legislatures, which let them draw favorable district lines. For example, in Pennsylvania voters preferred Democratic House candidates by 50%-49%, but the GOP won 72% of the seats (13/18).
Republicans can also console themselves with the knowledge that they will do better in 2014. The young and minority voters who put Obama over the top last night don’t tend to show up for midterm elections (they certainly didn’t in 2010), and the party in the White House almost always loses ground in Congress in the midterms.
Right again Jim. What is this? Are you feeling bad for us poor little extremists? This empathy is very confusing.
If you wake up and don’t want to smile,
If it takes just a little while,
Open your eyes and look at the day,
You’ll see things in a different way.
Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow!
At least we have that in common, Bob.
We do, but also, I thought Jim’s sentiments might be framed as an homage to Bill Clinton’s victory song, given that, among all the politicians of either party, Clinton gave the best speech of the whole 2012 campaign. And the 2nd best moment of the 2012 campaign was the revival of Newt Gingrich’s plan to make lunar colony a US state. 90s redux! And maybe we’ll hear that Fleetwood Mac song one or two more times in the 2016 Clinton campaign.
Speaking of sewing new stars on the US flag, this article provides quite the contrast with blatant B. Lewis’ racism above:
http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Puerto-Rico-votes-on-US-ties-and-chooses-governor-4012422.php
Sorry, please make that “B. Lewis’ blatant racism”, rather than the other way around. I do wonder if pending consideration for US statehood for Puerto Rico is the sleeper story of this election.
I am a white person. If being in favor of white people makes me a racist, then I’m a racist.
I’m sorry that you hate white people, though.
Tim Wise wants to murder white conservatives. Think there’s a connection there?
Jim was pretty close in his prediction.
I really didn’t expect Obama to do so well, that it would be much closer.
Another consoling thought for GOP supporters: this was Barack Obama’s last election. In time, as was the case with Bill Clinton, I expect both Obama’s supporters and detractors to agree that he is an unusually talented politician. I don’t see anyone in the wings who will be able to motivate the Democratic coalition as well as he has, except for Hillary Clinton, and she will be 69 in 2016. Even if Obama is fortunate enough to end his second term with Clintonesque popularity, it won’t automatically transfer to whomever the Democrats nominate to follow him.
The Republicans, on the other hand, have a number of promising potential 2016 standard bearers, starting with Paul Ryan.
No, the GOP is finished on the presidential scene. They simply do not have the numbers and can never promise the same amount of free stuff for the masses. That you think Paul Ryan has some shot at the big chair shows how out of touch you are.
can never promise the same amount of free stuff for the masses
Why not? Romney promised to spend more on Medicare than Obama, and Bush gave seniors prescription drug coverage. I don’t think the election was about promising free stuff, but if it were, the GOP has shown it can still compete.
Yeah, they can compete and lose, just like last night.
Nah. Because most people aren’t especially knowledgeable about policy considerations, I think presidential elections are decided more each candidate’s personality and background than on “free stuff”, and I expect plenty more GOP presidents. Christie would have been an interesting candidate, and may yet be one.
Here’s a funny genre-breaker which might result in some demographic reallignment in 2016: Montana Senator Jim Tester (D) vs Florida Senator Marco Rubio (R).
“Obama’s supporters and detractors to agree that he is an unusually talented politician.”
Oh, without a doubt he is a great politician. We disagree on how competent a leader he is but he can sure win campaigns.
He’s not a great politician, or even campaigner. He’s a demagogue with vicious campaign managers. And he was fortunate in his opponents, twice.
He’s not a man, he’s a brand. They have the formula down-pat now.
I’ve been a Democrat for decades, but Obama is the first candidate I’ve given more than a trivial amount of money to, and the first one I’ve volunteered for. A lot of other Democrats would say the same. I don’t think just any Democratic candidate can motivate Democratic voters the way Obama does.
Note: that’s a good thing for the GOP. If the Democrats could do what they just did with any old candidate it would be very bad news for the GOP.
Jim, what is it about serfdom that you find appealling?
That’s how good marketting works — you’re not supposed to notice how well it worked. If they can do it in ’08 and ’12, they can do that going forward so long as they choose to.
I agree Rand.
Obama is a Pinto crossed with a Yugo. But his campaign handlers and the MSM have convinced a majority of voters that he’s the fastest car on Earth, he gets 3000 miles to the gallon, and he can be delivered in whatever body style, seat number or seat configuration your little heart desires or needs.
He’s the Bread and Circuses Mobile!
There is nothing consoling. It is like watching a vehicle speeding down the road, knowing there is a hairpin turn just ahead, frantically waving to the driver to slow down, and seeing him gaze at you in confusion and doubt as he barrels on. Unfortunately, the vehicle is a tractor-trailer, and you are on the trailer.
It isn’t at all consoling, but at least you know that, if you survive, he took over the driver’s seat several miles past, and he owns the crash.
Christie would have been an interesting candidate, and may yet be one.
He won’t.
Maybe as a Dem…
LOL! Hey Bob would you vote for Dunkin’ Donuts in the primary?
I prefer Huntsman.
Then I was right.
The GOP needs more candidates like Christie, Huntsman, and Rubio – candidates who will forcefully slap down bigots like Christie did- look up Christie and “that’s crap”. Rand, I don’t know if your dislike of Christie is because of his lack of Islamophobia, or his recent praise of Obama (or something else). If it is Sandy-related, I don’t think the storm made much difference in the election — turning out the Democratic base was what mattered in this election , not the undecided voters, and the GOP’s racism problem galvanized the Democrat’s base.
My problem with Chris Christie is that he is a gun grabber, and economic ignoramus, and indifferent to the Constitution.
Turning out the base and turning off the moderates with the negative campaign. And a masterful control of the media and messaging.
Democrats telling their enemies what candidates to run. Chutzpah!
Ben Franklin (“the republic will endure until the electorate realizes it can vote money for itself out of the Treaury”*) weeps; but H.L. Mencken–the man who warned that elections in America were becoming “an auction of stolen goods held before the fact,” and ridiculed politicians who get elected by “promising to turn A loose in B’s cornfield”– is laughing his butt off, saying, “I warned you dolts!”
“My problem with Chris Christie is that he is a gun grabber, and economic ignoramus, and indifferent to the Constitution.”
No wonder Bob-1 likes him!
He also has become President Obama BFF it seems.
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/110929-christie-obama-930a.grid-5×2.jpg
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-leadership/in-superstorm-sandy-new-jersey-governor-chris-christie-praises-president-obamas-crisis-leadership/2012/10/30/89769e32-22b5-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_story.html
In superstorm Sandy, Gov. Chris Christie praises Obama’s crisis leadership
Here’s a even better one for his Governor Christi’s run as a Democrat in the Presidential Primaries…
http://blogs.e-rockford.com/applesauce/files/2012/10/christie-obama.jpg
I wonder if President Obama will endorse him
In superstorm Sandy,
Gov. Chris ChristieThomas Matula praisesObamaBloomberg’s crisis leadershipFIFY