More Guns, Less Crime

Jeffrey Goldberg at The Atlantic comes to recognize the benefits of an armed citizenry, though he still think that there is a “gun-show loophole.” But some of the emotionalism and non-thinking on the part of his interview subjects is breathtaking:

Mauser expresses disbelief that the number of gun deaths fails to shock. He blames the American attachment to guns on ignorance, and on immaturity. “We’re a pretty new nation,” he told me. “We’re still at the stage of rebellious teenager, and we don’t like it when the government tells us what to do. People don’t trust government to do what’s right. They are very attracted to the idea of a nation of individuals, so they don’t think about what’s good for the collective.”

Mauser said that if the United States were as mature as the countries of Europe, where strict gun control is the norm, the federal government would have a much easier time curtailing the average citizen’s access to weapons. “The people themselves would understand that having guns around puts them in more danger.”

I’m sorry your son was killed, but if you want to live in Europe, move to Europe, and be a collectivist. My ancestors came to this country to get away from all that.

12 thoughts on “More Guns, Less Crime

  1. Bilwick

    “We’re still at the stage of rebellious teenager, and we don’t like it when the government tells us what to do.”

    You know, because really mature people submit gracefully to Daddy and Mommy State!

    “People don’t trust government to do what’s right.” Those foolish peasants! Why would they possibly distrust government? It never fails to do what is right!

    “They are very attracted to the idea of a nation of individuals”–O horrors!– “so they don’t think about what’s good for the collective.” What’s good for the collective the same thing that’s good for the individual. They call it “liberty.” You oughta look into it, you State-fellating dipstick.

    People don’t trust government to do what’s right. They are very attracted

  2. Robin Goodfellow

    It’s funny how the artificial nature of modern Europe created through Cold War geopolitics and US superpower is somehow taken to be “the way Europe has always been”.

    1. Josh Reiter

      Heh, I know right. Many European socialistic policies have only been around for a few generations and it’s already falling apart.

    2. Robin Goodfellow

      I hate replying to myself, but this point deserves elaboration, I think.

      To clarify, the Europe that these people speak of, an old, cultured, wise, peaceful Europe, is a Europe that doesn’t actually exist, it’s a fantasy. What they’re really talking about is a tiny subset of post-WWII Western Europe. In many ways the countries of Europe are younger than America, about 1/4 as old in fact, as they trace their modern roots back to the mid-20th century.

      Of course it’s necessary to bring down the veil of ignorance when looking beyond that timeline. Because if you fail to do so you see a Europe which is neither peaceful or wise but a Europe wracked by WWII, WWI, all of the many wars of the 19th century, and Soviet Imperialism, of course. And a Europe which use every underhanded technique imaginable to bring most of the world’s population under the yoke of oppressive imperialism.

      If we take the full vision of Europe across the breadth of the age of the United States we see not an old, wise, peaceful Europe. We see a violent, racist, nationalist, imperialist Europe. It’s easy to forget that half of Europe was under the thumb of communist imperialism until only 2 decades ago. It’s also easy to forget “little” things like the Yugoslav civil war. Or the fact that Spain had a fascist government until 1975. Or the near civil war in the UK over Irish/Catholic independence. Or the still ongoing struggles and violence in Italy over organized crime, or in Russia. Or the creeping totalitarianism in Russia, Belarus, etc. Or the appalling life expectancy figures for males in Russia over the past decade or so. Or the equally appalling violent crime figures in Russia. Heck, it’s probably best to just pretend Russia and it’s 110 million citizens within the European continent doesn’t actually belong to Europe, it would certainly be a lot more convenient that way.

      When these people say “Europe” what they actually mean “a few countries in the North West of Europe, with convenient historical blinders applied, of course”. This is cherry picking from already cherry picked data points. It would be like me saying “The US” when what I meant was “New York state and Pennsylvania, from the years 1960 to present”.

      The fact that some subset of modern, Western Europe has decided to give up its guns isn’t entirely relevant to me. It also doesn’t help that some subset of modern, Western Europe has decided not to give up its guns, and lives with a comparable level of violent crime. You know, countries like Switzerland (the home of Sig Sauer), Finland, Sweden, France, Italy (the home of Beretta), Austria (the home of Glock), Germany, etc. (despite heavy regulation in some of these countries). In fact, among countries in Europe really only the Netherlands, parts of the former Eastern Bloc, and parts of the UK could be described as having “given up their guns”. Just because the French aren’t always talking about their guns in public doesn’t mean they don’t have them, it just means they don’t feel comfortable talking about them with strangers.

  3. Rand Simberg Post author

    Of course it’s necessary to bring down the veil of ignorance when looking beyond that timeline. Because if you fail to do so you see a Europe which is neither peaceful or wise but a Europe wracked by WWII, WWI, all of the many wars of the 19th century, and Soviet Imperialism, of course. And a Europe which use every underhanded technique imaginable to bring most of the world’s population under the yoke of oppressive imperialism.

    Yeah, but you have to admit, it wasn’t about “nations of individuals.” ;-)

  4. Bilwick

    Rand’s statement about how his ancestors left Europe to get away from statism reminds me in an oblique way of the statement of Samuel Adams to the Tories of his day:

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty,
    the tranquility of servitude
    better than the animating contest of freedom,
    go home from us in peace.
    We ask not your counsels or your arms.
    Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
    May your chains set lightly upon you,
    and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

    “Go home from us in peace.” The day after the election I heard some Obama Zombie saying people who oppose the New Order should just leave America. This guy, like most Obama Zombies, was a tool; but it raises an interesting question. The Tories whom Adams admonished could go back to the Mother Country, where they could get all the serfdom theire little serfy hearts could desire. For those of us who are of the pro-freedom persuasion, where do we go? This IS our Mother Country, founded on libertarian principles. Where do we go when “Il Dufe” and his butt boys succeed in turning the US into the equivalent of Venezuela del Norte? Why can’t these New Tories go somewhere more in sync with their State-fellating tendences, like most of Europe or even Cuba?

    1. Mike James

      Bilwick, that sort of talk is just blowing off steam, similar in kind, though not content, to all the secession petitions. I’m not going anyplace, and I’ll suggest neither are you.

      We ought to contemplate this briefly, because there is historical precedent, but if it came down to a bullets and bandages fight, do you possibly think the post-Americans would win? I don’t.

      1. Bilwick

        And how does what you say relate to or refute the points I raised, Mike? By the way if I’m blowing off steam, so were Sam Adams and Tom Paine.

  5. Josh Reiter

    Last night I got reminded of this post when Bob Costas took it upon himself to politicize the murder/suicide of Jovan Belcher during the Cowboys v. Eagles game. He basically used the shooting as an example that we should totally ban all guns. I guess we should ban all knives, baseball bats, and bare fists because there are victims of domestic violence that suffer from those brutal weapons as well. Politics aside I just thought the whole thing was in bad taste. The bodies are barely cold but Bob wastes no time politicizing the whole thing to enlighten us knuckle draggers who just want to enjoy a football game for a few hours without having it turn into a philosophical self examination.

Comments are closed.