It’s not a new idea, but this is from a surprising new source. As noted, let’s hope he doesn’t pay with his life.
25 thoughts on “Islam Needs A Religious Reformation”
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It’s not a new idea, but this is from a surprising new source. As noted, let’s hope he doesn’t pay with his life.
Comments are closed.
I suspect Islam needs a counter-counter-counter-counter-reformation. Judaism and Christianity needed several cycles of individual fanaticism and authoritarianism to get something reasonable. I don’t see how Islam can take a short cut.
Islam was a reformation, by an illiterate pedophile. Constantine was never christian. Luther (not illiterate) didn’t make it so. Jesus disciples in the first century are the only clear christians. In the 1800’s there were multiple groups that began to realize this with various results. Any that don’t acknowledge this history are not christian.
Having said that (making no friends) if Islam can be turned truly peaceful, that would be a plus. I don’t see it happening. The source is surprising.
“Constantine was never christian.”
So the founder of the Catholic Church was not Christian. From where did you get this foolish idea? The legend behind his conversion is quite well known.
Oh right if they weren’t disciples of Jesus then they aren’t real Christians. By that token no actual religion is true to its roots.
If Judaism can be made peaceful in your perspective so can Islam.
I think we are dealing with a variant of the “No True Scotsmen” meme.
“Scottish men are gentlemen and would never, never let a woman stand riding the bus.”
(woman tourist) “I just got back from Glasgow, and I had to stand with all these men remaining seated.”
“No true Scotsman would ever do such a thing!” (Implying that the bus-riding men were foreigners or men in Scotland not living up to the honorable traditions of their ancestors. You play this game long enough, and pretty soon you narrow down the set of True Scotsmen to a handful of men satisfying strict criteria.)
I this vein, Constantine was No True Christian along with Martin Luther and everyone else associated with Christian belief.
Whatever a person self identifies as, there exists a superior standard.
That standard does not change to suit whims or true Scotsman.
No legislation can redefine that standard (unlike pi, which is a similar stupidity.)
Thinking god must conform to us is the first fallacy.
All religions evolve to better fit a changing world, Islam is no exception.
It seems to have evolved to take advantage of advanced technology that it’s not capable of creating itself to kill and subjugate others.
Unfortunately the UN doesn’t have the balls to cut the Islamic world off from one of the required Western-sourced precursors to making a car bomb – namely cars.
The UN does not have the power to do it. Better call the WTO.
1600 years of history says you’re wrong.
I don’t see any proof that Islam is evolving. Usually an evolution means a re-examination of the founder’s principles.
Christian reforms almost always go back to their roots: love they neighbor, compassion, help the poor and sick. There were many reforms in the middle ages, and one can argue that Luther was part of that long tradition.
Islam is different than the other major religions because its roots involve statements by Muhammed that say to kill the Infidel. There aren’t any quotes like this in the New Testament: “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” Qur’an: 9:5
Sufism might qualify as being a peaceful sect of Islam.
Sorry I’m pressed for time so I’m just cutting and pasting from Yahoo answers.
egyphile answered 7 years ago
Peter:
It is amazing how perverting ONE word can totally change the meaning of a verse. The word used in the original Arabic is NOT ‘disbelievers’ but ‘idolaters’…..And this Sura marks the END of idolotry and polytheism in Arabia…something for which Muhammad should be praised by monotheists, NOT condemned by ignorant bigots.
The Sura is titled “Repentence” and it was written as a warning against a great war that was imminent, and in preparation from the Christian Byzantine Empire…against the fledgeling Muslim community.
If you read the entire Sura you will understand exactly what God instructed Muhammed to proclaim…that those who made treaties with Islam, or who paid a religious tax, and repented of idolatry were to be immune from any attack or retaliation from the armies of Islam. This was directed ONLY at those polytheists who refused to form treaties with Islam, and insisted on continuing to worship false idols. No different, but far more merciful than the treatment of ‘pagan Cannanites’ by Yahweh and his Israelite armies.
Read verse 6-13 for a better understaning:
“And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection, O Muhammad, then protect him so that he may hear the word of God, and afterward convey him to a place of safety.
……..How can there be a treaty for the others when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact, nor honor in respect to you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse…..Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges and purposed to drive out the Messenger and did attack you first? ”
This has always been the message of Islam…DO NOT ATTACK, DO NOT PROVOKE WAR, BUT DEFEND YOURSELF AGAINST THOSE WHO ATTACK ISLAM.
THAT is far more humanistic than the commands of Yahweh, in the Old Testament to destroy every living being in a captured pagan city…men, women, children, unborn infants, and even dumb animals.
Those Christians who responded that Islam orders death for ‘unbelievers’ or those who leave Islam, are simply preaching biogoted, intolerant, fundamentalist Christian hate propaganda. And it is obvious that NOT ONE OF THEM has ever read the Quran…anymore than they have read their OWN bible!! Or they would have found verse after verse proclaiming that there is ‘no compulsion in religion’. Islam means to surrender, totally, to God….and surrender can not be forced!
And before the stones start flying: I am not a Muslim, have no intention of ever becoming a Muslim, but I HAVE made a 40 year study of both the Quran and the Bible. And have found them both to be nothing more than the opinions of fallible men. Neither completely ‘good’, nor completely ‘bad’. I have, however,found far less vengence, violance, and God-ordained massacre in the Quran than in the Old Testament.
Source(s):
Read:
“The Meaning of the Glorious Quran” An explanatory translation by M.M. Pitckthall.
The first and, in my experience, the BEST English translation….by an Englishman who converted to Islam.
Don’t forget the Bible includes the Old Testament:
“… and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.” (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Can you describe anyone in modern times who actually follows those dicta of the Old Testament? Because I can show you plenty who kill in the name of Allah and many more who claim to support that. Millions.
But it’s in the book! If they believe in their God they must accept it!
Well, that’s what Islamophobes would claim of Muslims.
Here’s a Pew survey on Muslim attitudes globally, the thing I find fascinating is the huge diversity of opinions amongst Muslims, even those supporting Sharia law don’t seem to understand that they’ve all supposed to support the death penalty for those choosing to leave Islam (page 55), with that same diversity of opinion shown throughout the entire survey.
But it’s in the book! If they believe in their God they must accept it!
Most Christians pay little attention to the Old Testament. Their book is the new one. And even Jews don’t do it when it comes to that jealous vengeful god stuff. No one believes in that Old Testament god, really. But a significant percentage of Muslims still believe that the whole Quran is the word of God. Millions support Al Qaeda and other “radical” (that is actual followers of the religion) movements.
The point is that even if only a small fraction of Muslims believe in sharia, and all it implies, it’s a big problem, given the absolute numbers.
Sorry 4got link:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
My point was that even those that believe in Sharia, don’t interpret it as Islamophobes tell us they’re supposed to. The text of the Quran is not as cut and dried as is claimed, there is plenty of room for Muslims to have a diversity of opinion on the meaning of the book, and where diversity exists evolution can occur.
Islam has at times been at the forefront of progress (the Islamic golden age), and at times been behind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
New Testament please. That was my point. The teachings of Jesus. Not Moses.
And who cares if the word is idolator. The point is that murder is sanctioned in the Q’uoran. And why would I believe anyone who allows Taqiyya. Cut and paste all you like.
Israel was in a covenant relationship with god that included both blessings and maledictions in which the entire nation would be held accountable.
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 was about cleansing the nation of idol worshipers.
It had nothing to do with killing others or terrorism. All nations have laws that carry capital punishment. To equate this with war on innocent people is insane.
“My point was that even those that believe in Sharia, don’t interpret it as Islamophobes tell us they’re supposed to.”
I am less concerned about non-Islamic quoting of scripture than I am about Islamic militants quoting of scripture. Often times, people are not searching the Quran for things to quote in internet disputes but rather repeating what Islamic militants use to justify their actions.
“And it is obvious that NOT ONE OF THEM has ever read the Quran…anymore than they have read their OWN bible!! Or they would have found verse after verse proclaiming that there is ‘no compulsion in religion’.”
And yet there is compulsion. Why is it that the people who don’t view themselves as phobes are OK with their own non-Islamic interpretation of Islam?
There is this romanticized view of Islam that some people have where sympathy leads them to overlook reality. Look at Islam’s golden age that people like to reference. This was a time of conquest, slavery, and genocide. Groups that were allowed to live became a perpetual underclass of victims. It wasn’t especially out of the ordinary for the times but it certainly wasn’t tolerant. Accusations of blasphemy could still see a family brutally killed. Life in Islam’s golden age was probably a lot like life in modern day tribal Pakistan.
“All religions evolve to better fit a changing world, Islam is no exception.”
I agree. All religions change over time. It is now time for Islam to reform itself.
I think it will happen about the same time there is peace in Israel. That is part snark but there is some truth there when you think about it.
Well, there is such a thing and it is called Bahai (excuse the lack of diactrical marks).
I believe that Bahaa or some variant is the Arabic word for glory as is the word Slava in Slavic culture or Doxa in Greek. A Slava is a religious observance of a Christian saint in Orthodox households and I was told the word meant “glory.” The word Orthodox in Greek as with Prava Slavni in the Slavic languages translates as “Straight Glory”, which loosely translates as having the correct religion.
There was a religious leader who took on the name Bahaullah, which I gather from adherents telling me about their belief translates something like “God’s Glory”, and his followers are Bahai, which I am guessing is a Persian grammar construction of a noun ending as in Latin, Greek, Croatian, Russian, and Sanscrit, which they don’t have in Arabic or Hebrew, which means “of God’s Glory.”
Followers of Islam believe Bahai to be heresy, as having a latter-day holy man kind of goes against a major tenent of Islam, but Catholics didn’t cotton to Protestants back in the day and there is still some ethno-religious tension leading to strife among Christians to this day. And again, there is not perfect harmony within Sunni and Shia Islam.
I am told the Bahai adherents are very peaceful and also suffer from persecution. I guess if you uphold your religious teaching about peace, you really don’t “punch back, twice as hard” and suffer the consequences, but again, maybe the reward is in the next life and not this one.
the founder of the Catholic Church was not Christian
Clearly.
The name christian comes from Acts and refers to disciples of Jesus in the first century. Constantine, just like Mohammad, ran to the front of the parade to lead the march. Both killed christians making their claims dubious to say the very least. They were military and political leaders, not christians.
Jesus kingdom was no part of the world. Reconcile that with those frauds.