Officer Ross had no legal obligation to step out of harm’s way, but that game wasn’t how he was trained. I don’t know which of the officers had the handheld video. But it shows an officer walking right in front of this idling vehicle before speaking to Good, the driver.
What will happen when the prosecution has an ICE trainer on the stand and they ask the trainer if officers are trained to approachthe vehicle of a suspect so closely? And this won’t be in a vacuum. The same officer was dragged by a vehicle in June of last year requiring a tournequet and a lot of stitches. That’s because he reached inside a rear window he had broken in order to unlock the driver door. Was he trained to do that too?
My view is that he probably won’t be convicted of murder and good chance that he won’t be convicted of anything. But this isn’t a hill worth dying on. He had an obligation not to put himself in harm’s way by the training and duties of a law enforcement officer. And this is at least the second time he violated that.
Finally, we know of these two cases only because someone was seriously hurt or died. He has shown that he’s a danger to both himself and others. He should not be a law enforcement officer.
Karl, cops break windows to get into cars all the time in situations like this (that is, to arrest someone). The bare idea that doing so is somehow inherently unsafe, untrained, or whatever is simply ridiculous. You could literally find 20 videos on Youtube of similar situations with a few seconds’ effort.
Karl, cops break windows to get into cars all the time in situations like this (that is, to arrest someone).
Rick, when Office Ross did that, he required 33 stitches. What went wrong?
And similarly, officers arrest people all the time at traffic stops. They don’t usually shoot the driver. What went wrong?
It’s not like we’re looking at a broad spectrum of Ross’s law enforcement activities and picking what went wrong. These are traffic stops with very similar scenarios. He’s supposedly very skilled even by law enforcement standards at what he does. Yet we see basic violations of training and policy.
Actually, if you watch the full video the officer did not step in front of the car. The officer was at the side of the car. Then the car was put in reverse while turning, which put the officer in front of the car. Then the car was put in drive with the wheels straight (not turning to avoid the officer) and the accelerator was floored. Then at the last second the driver turned the wheel to avoid the officer, bu it was already far too late and the officer was struck.
Pause the video at each relevant point, and identify the location of the officer, and the direction the wheels were facing.
And what I see is Officer Ross starts about 10-20 yards away from Good’s vehicle on the passenger side as he gets out of his. Then he ends up on the driver’s side a little later. In between, he walks right in front of Good’s idling vehicle and then behind it.
Then during the shooting, he is standing right in the path of travel (off slightly to the side is not that safe as we see) while another ICE officer panics the driver by trying to get into the car. Sounds like conflicting orders were shouted at Good too.
The whole thing takes under a minute from when Ross got out of his car. Where’s the attempt to arrest Good normally? She was blocking a road. It should have been easy to show that she was obstructing justice and thus, put her (and her partner) away for a while.
Get a ICE trainer on the stand and ask them if that’s part of their training. Then start asking the officers on the scene why they were in such a hurry that they couldn’t do a proper arrest.
There’s a point to this. Too much of the current argument is about the moment of the shooting, like where the wheels of Good’s vehicle were pointed and so on. My view is that in a vacuum, Officer Ross has a pretty solid case for self-defense there. A reasonable person wouldn’t be expected to know exactly how much their life was endangered (one can still use self-defense of course even if the threat turns out false or underwhelming). I think he’s mostly safe on that front.
What’s going to get him (and probably at least one of his fellow officers), if something (like partial immunity) doesn’t protect him, is the rushed sloppiness of the ICE officers before, during, and after the shooting. I don’t see conviction for murder in his future, but there’s a good case here for negligent homicide especial for the lower standard of evidence in civil court.
And it could have been avoided by these officers doing their job properly.
Looking at it from a different angle, the lady backed up her suv and turned so that the officer was in front of her, at the driver’s side front right bumper.
But it doesn’t matter as she did hit him and even if she didn’t, a reasonable person would fear loss of life or serious injury from someone gunning an SUV at you.
She and her husband (the dominant of the pair), it seems, had spent the morning using their White Woman Privileges to harass these same officers, which is why she said “I’m not mad at you” before trying to run him over. She wrongly assumed that this escalation would be protected, too.
Is there any guy, white or black, who’d believe he could block cops on a street for over three minutes while laying on the horn and not be rewarded with a free ride in the back of a cop car, but instead be able to just drive away?
If the problem is bad training, it’s in training officers to tolerate repeated provocations and escalations because of the fear of higher level bureaucrats of looking bad.
(If the agents really are the Gestapo, then these “legal observers” and their keyboard warrior supporters have no idea how the real Gestapo dealt with their behavior.)
As for prosecution of the agent, they’ll only happen as a distraction to the indictments of Walz, Ellison, Frey & co for their parts in the daycare and medical transport scams.
“Finally, we know of these two cases only because someone was seriously hurt or died.”
In other words, you don’t have to kill cops, just make them look bad.
In other words, you don’t have to kill cops, just make them look bad.
Officer Ross made Officer Ross look bad. This is the second time he messed up a traffic stop and got someone hurt.
block cops on a street for over three minutes while laying on the horn and not be rewarded with a free ride in the back of a cop car, but instead be able to just drive away?
Looks to me like she got spooked by someone trying to open one of her doors. I don’t think she thought at that point.
My point here is that it should have been a straightforward task to arrest her for obstruction of justice. And if she plays games like not turning off the car or refusing to get out, then that’s more charges to add to the list. Sooner or later a judge would get tired of her and put her away for a while.
It should have never gotten to the point where self-defense would be relevant.
How straightforward is it to arrest someone who’s in a 2 ton vehicle, refuses to get out or turn it off? Then tries to drive off when the officer tries to do something to move the arrest forward?
No, it’s on her. It’s terrible that she died, but it was self-inflicted.
How straightforward is it to arrest someone who’s in a 2 ton vehicle, refuses to get out or turn it off?
Consider that they didn’t even try. From when Ross, first on the scene, got out of his car to the shooting was around 40 seconds.
The only thing professional about that was the well-aimed shots.
No, it’s on her. It’s terrible that she died, but it was self-inflicted.
And it didn’t need to happen if those ICE officers had done their job properly.
Every cop has heard the adage that the most important duty is to go home to his family.
Some cops should be reminded at the beginning of every shift. Nothing he did in either case was illegal but he did endanger himself unnecessarily.
I’m speculating, but my impression is that neither of them perceived any danger in what they were doing. Situational Awareness People
Ross leans into the car as it comes towards him, placing his left hand on the hood while aiming with his right. After the first round is fired he take 2 steps to his left, keeping adjacent to the open drivers window through which he fires 2 more rounds.
Law enforcement are authorized to use lethal force in their own defense and the defense of others if it is to prevent serious injury or worse. Ross’s actions are contrary to someone who saw themselves in such danger. To me his actions look unpaniced, clinical and show his many years of experience.
There have been several convictions of law enforcement in recent years in the US where a claim of self-defense was made as the justification for homicide with that defense failing.
A claim of victimhood being in the eyes of the beholder, rather than based on the available evidence seems very woke.
Yes, he was bracing for impact as the lady drove right at him, like when someone braces for a fall. She backed up, turned her suv, and angled it right at the officer. Whether she intended to hit him or not doesn’t matter as she did hit him but even if she didn’t, the conditions were still met for self defense.
A reasonable person would fear loss of life or serious injury and a reasonable person would think someone who had been acting like she had, then hit a cop, would also be a risk for hitting other people.
He was adjacent to the front wheel when he fired the first shot. That was over a second after the vehicle started moving forwards. He had his left hand on the hood, so he was totally aware of the position of the vehicle and direction of its travel in relation to himself. And he demonstrated that knowledge by firing through the windshield, at an angle that required him to be beside rather than in front of the vehicle.
Stupid bitch FAFO’d. Tough titties. The other woman needs to be charged as an accessory.
If Trump really were a Fascist dictator, we’d soon be rid of all these idiots, Hollywood, Academia, Deep State and all. And since Trump is almost 80, he’d only be dictator for a little while. Then we could try again without the loons. Makes me sorry I’m 75.
Democrats are training people to engage in these activities. It isn’t random. It is organized and orchestrated. The feds should go after the trainers and the funders.
Democrats should also stop using violence and terrorism in place of legitimate protest but violence is there strategy.
Anyone who thinks the officer should have done this or that also needs to realize Democrats are making a deliberate choice to train and fund people engaging in violence. If they stopped, none of this would be happening.
Democrats are training people to engage in these activities. It isn’t random. It is organized and orchestrated. The feds should go after the trainers and the funders.
There certainly was a training failure with Good. She should have turned the car off rather than leave it idling. That little choice probably would have saved her life.
Democrats should also stop using violence and terrorism in place of legitimate protest but violence is there strategy.
Who again died in this alleged violence and terrorism? It ended up pretty one-sided for a terrorist attack – almost like there wasn’t a terrorist attack at all.
Anyone who thinks the officer should have done this or that also needs to realize Democrats are making a deliberate choice to train and fund people engaging in violence. If they stopped, none of this would be happening.
If Officer Ross followed his training, none of this would be happening either.
Officer Ross had no legal obligation to step out of harm’s way, but that game wasn’t how he was trained. I don’t know which of the officers had the handheld video. But it shows an officer walking right in front of this idling vehicle before speaking to Good, the driver.
What will happen when the prosecution has an ICE trainer on the stand and they ask the trainer if officers are trained to approachthe vehicle of a suspect so closely? And this won’t be in a vacuum. The same officer was dragged by a vehicle in June of last year requiring a tournequet and a lot of stitches. That’s because he reached inside a rear window he had broken in order to unlock the driver door. Was he trained to do that too?
My view is that he probably won’t be convicted of murder and good chance that he won’t be convicted of anything. But this isn’t a hill worth dying on. He had an obligation not to put himself in harm’s way by the training and duties of a law enforcement officer. And this is at least the second time he violated that.
Finally, we know of these two cases only because someone was seriously hurt or died. He has shown that he’s a danger to both himself and others. He should not be a law enforcement officer.
Karl, cops break windows to get into cars all the time in situations like this (that is, to arrest someone). The bare idea that doing so is somehow inherently unsafe, untrained, or whatever is simply ridiculous. You could literally find 20 videos on Youtube of similar situations with a few seconds’ effort.
Karl, cops break windows to get into cars all the time in situations like this (that is, to arrest someone).
Rick, when Office Ross did that, he required 33 stitches. What went wrong?
And similarly, officers arrest people all the time at traffic stops. They don’t usually shoot the driver. What went wrong?
It’s not like we’re looking at a broad spectrum of Ross’s law enforcement activities and picking what went wrong. These are traffic stops with very similar scenarios. He’s supposedly very skilled even by law enforcement standards at what he does. Yet we see basic violations of training and policy.
Actually, if you watch the full video the officer did not step in front of the car. The officer was at the side of the car. Then the car was put in reverse while turning, which put the officer in front of the car. Then the car was put in drive with the wheels straight (not turning to avoid the officer) and the accelerator was floored. Then at the last second the driver turned the wheel to avoid the officer, bu it was already far too late and the officer was struck.
Pause the video at each relevant point, and identify the location of the officer, and the direction the wheels were facing.
And what I see is Officer Ross starts about 10-20 yards away from Good’s vehicle on the passenger side as he gets out of his. Then he ends up on the driver’s side a little later. In between, he walks right in front of Good’s idling vehicle and then behind it.
Then during the shooting, he is standing right in the path of travel (off slightly to the side is not that safe as we see) while another ICE officer panics the driver by trying to get into the car. Sounds like conflicting orders were shouted at Good too.
The whole thing takes under a minute from when Ross got out of his car. Where’s the attempt to arrest Good normally? She was blocking a road. It should have been easy to show that she was obstructing justice and thus, put her (and her partner) away for a while.
Get a ICE trainer on the stand and ask them if that’s part of their training. Then start asking the officers on the scene why they were in such a hurry that they couldn’t do a proper arrest.
There’s a point to this. Too much of the current argument is about the moment of the shooting, like where the wheels of Good’s vehicle were pointed and so on. My view is that in a vacuum, Officer Ross has a pretty solid case for self-defense there. A reasonable person wouldn’t be expected to know exactly how much their life was endangered (one can still use self-defense of course even if the threat turns out false or underwhelming). I think he’s mostly safe on that front.
What’s going to get him (and probably at least one of his fellow officers), if something (like partial immunity) doesn’t protect him, is the rushed sloppiness of the ICE officers before, during, and after the shooting. I don’t see conviction for murder in his future, but there’s a good case here for negligent homicide especial for the lower standard of evidence in civil court.
And it could have been avoided by these officers doing their job properly.
Looking at it from a different angle, the lady backed up her suv and turned so that the officer was in front of her, at the driver’s side front right bumper.
But it doesn’t matter as she did hit him and even if she didn’t, a reasonable person would fear loss of life or serious injury from someone gunning an SUV at you.
She and her husband (the dominant of the pair), it seems, had spent the morning using their White Woman Privileges to harass these same officers, which is why she said “I’m not mad at you” before trying to run him over. She wrongly assumed that this escalation would be protected, too.
Is there any guy, white or black, who’d believe he could block cops on a street for over three minutes while laying on the horn and not be rewarded with a free ride in the back of a cop car, but instead be able to just drive away?
If the problem is bad training, it’s in training officers to tolerate repeated provocations and escalations because of the fear of higher level bureaucrats of looking bad.
(If the agents really are the Gestapo, then these “legal observers” and their keyboard warrior supporters have no idea how the real Gestapo dealt with their behavior.)
As for prosecution of the agent, they’ll only happen as a distraction to the indictments of Walz, Ellison, Frey & co for their parts in the daycare and medical transport scams.
“Finally, we know of these two cases only because someone was seriously hurt or died.”
In other words, you don’t have to kill cops, just make them look bad.
In other words, you don’t have to kill cops, just make them look bad.
Officer Ross made Officer Ross look bad. This is the second time he messed up a traffic stop and got someone hurt.
block cops on a street for over three minutes while laying on the horn and not be rewarded with a free ride in the back of a cop car, but instead be able to just drive away?
Looks to me like she got spooked by someone trying to open one of her doors. I don’t think she thought at that point.
My point here is that it should have been a straightforward task to arrest her for obstruction of justice. And if she plays games like not turning off the car or refusing to get out, then that’s more charges to add to the list. Sooner or later a judge would get tired of her and put her away for a while.
It should have never gotten to the point where self-defense would be relevant.
How straightforward is it to arrest someone who’s in a 2 ton vehicle, refuses to get out or turn it off? Then tries to drive off when the officer tries to do something to move the arrest forward?
No, it’s on her. It’s terrible that she died, but it was self-inflicted.
How straightforward is it to arrest someone who’s in a 2 ton vehicle, refuses to get out or turn it off?
Consider that they didn’t even try. From when Ross, first on the scene, got out of his car to the shooting was around 40 seconds.
The only thing professional about that was the well-aimed shots.
No, it’s on her. It’s terrible that she died, but it was self-inflicted.
And it didn’t need to happen if those ICE officers had done their job properly.
Every cop has heard the adage that the most important duty is to go home to his family.
Some cops should be reminded at the beginning of every shift. Nothing he did in either case was illegal but he did endanger himself unnecessarily.
I’m speculating, but my impression is that neither of them perceived any danger in what they were doing. Situational Awareness People
Ross leans into the car as it comes towards him, placing his left hand on the hood while aiming with his right. After the first round is fired he take 2 steps to his left, keeping adjacent to the open drivers window through which he fires 2 more rounds.
https://youtube.com/shorts/LYm7SsakcxI?si=8amWcGlGT3ZcRTmS
Law enforcement are authorized to use lethal force in their own defense and the defense of others if it is to prevent serious injury or worse. Ross’s actions are contrary to someone who saw themselves in such danger. To me his actions look unpaniced, clinical and show his many years of experience.
There have been several convictions of law enforcement in recent years in the US where a claim of self-defense was made as the justification for homicide with that defense failing.
A claim of victimhood being in the eyes of the beholder, rather than based on the available evidence seems very woke.
Yes, he was bracing for impact as the lady drove right at him, like when someone braces for a fall. She backed up, turned her suv, and angled it right at the officer. Whether she intended to hit him or not doesn’t matter as she did hit him but even if she didn’t, the conditions were still met for self defense.
A reasonable person would fear loss of life or serious injury and a reasonable person would think someone who had been acting like she had, then hit a cop, would also be a risk for hitting other people.
He was adjacent to the front wheel when he fired the first shot. That was over a second after the vehicle started moving forwards. He had his left hand on the hood, so he was totally aware of the position of the vehicle and direction of its travel in relation to himself. And he demonstrated that knowledge by firing through the windshield, at an angle that required him to be beside rather than in front of the vehicle.
Stupid bitch FAFO’d. Tough titties. The other woman needs to be charged as an accessory.
If Trump really were a Fascist dictator, we’d soon be rid of all these idiots, Hollywood, Academia, Deep State and all. And since Trump is almost 80, he’d only be dictator for a little while. Then we could try again without the loons. Makes me sorry I’m 75.
Democrats are training people to engage in these activities. It isn’t random. It is organized and orchestrated. The feds should go after the trainers and the funders.
Democrats should also stop using violence and terrorism in place of legitimate protest but violence is there strategy.
Anyone who thinks the officer should have done this or that also needs to realize Democrats are making a deliberate choice to train and fund people engaging in violence. If they stopped, none of this would be happening.
Democrats are training people to engage in these activities. It isn’t random. It is organized and orchestrated. The feds should go after the trainers and the funders.
There certainly was a training failure with Good. She should have turned the car off rather than leave it idling. That little choice probably would have saved her life.
Democrats should also stop using violence and terrorism in place of legitimate protest but violence is there strategy.
Who again died in this alleged violence and terrorism? It ended up pretty one-sided for a terrorist attack – almost like there wasn’t a terrorist attack at all.
Anyone who thinks the officer should have done this or that also needs to realize Democrats are making a deliberate choice to train and fund people engaging in violence. If they stopped, none of this would be happening.
If Officer Ross followed his training, none of this would be happening either.