Gateway Pundit has the story.
Oh, sorry, did I offend? Let’s call them the Young Pioneers instead. And soon, we’ll find out what color the uniforms are.
I hope there will be an immediate suit against it on Thirteenth-Amendment grounds (assuming it makes it through the Senate — I’m hoping that it will be one of many bridges too far).
These people want to bring back slavery.
This seems like a wonderful way to alienate young voters.
We can only hope, Paul. The draft wasn’t that popular the last time we had one, as I recall.
They’re setting up a commission to study something — run for the hills!
Jim, no committee is necessary to decide whether fascist “volunteerism” is a good idea. This is a settled issue – among non-fascists.
When has the government ever “studied” something that some interest group didn’t want to eventually implement? Believe it or not, but some of us have been paying attention to the way the “progressives” lobby for their dream projects.
I knew someone who, stars in eyes, went into AmeriCorps, Clinton’s previous version of this twaddle. The experience was pretty horrific, amazingly exploitive and brual.
For that matter, I knew two people who did the Peace Corp, JFK’s version, many years ago, and their experience (in Africa) was similar.
I’ve no doubt there are the occasional charming results, but my impression of both programs are that if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing, if you’re not wise and experienced (i.e. not young) they are a bad idea. They embody most of the exploitation of youth and inexperience which the Left (projecting, as always) attributes to minimum wage employment. Blech.
Reading through the most recent bill, it appears that they’ve removed the “mandatory” language from it. Section 6104 is no more.
Jim, this isn’t a comission. This is a bill with real power, passed by the House.
Mr. Simberg,
Obamajugend and Obamaabteilungen seem to be appropriate perjoratives.
Though, frankly, those are National Socialist terms, and I don’t know the Italian fascist equivalents.
The linked article says:
a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed”
This act does not create such a requirement.
And if it mandatory national service is fascist, does that make Israel fascist? Finland? Switzerland?
“When has the government ever “studied” something that some interest group didn’t want to eventually implement?”
Actually, there have been plenty of government studies that ended up doing nothing but gathering dust somewhere, because the then-current administratons didn’t like the results.
Which is not to say that the main point of the story shouldn’t make one wary. Somebody re-defined ‘volunteer’ when I wasn’t looking…
Jim says: “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed”
Workable, fair, and reasonable sounds great….mandatory sounds like freedoms being stripped away.
And if it mandatory national service is fascist, does that make Israel fascist? Finland? Switzerland?
Yes, actually, to that degree in which they have universal service. Sorry, but it’s a feature of fascism. In Israel’s case, they’ve been in an unavoidable state of perpetual warfare for sixty years, and it’s thus unavoidable in itself.
But Jim, you misunderstand. While I agree that fascism is bad, I recognize that it’s occasionally necessary, and I don’t see it as evil as the left (who are fascists themselves, though they don’t understand their own intellectual history) do. To them, it’s just a mindless term to throw at anyone they disagree with.
I just want to call things by their proper names.
Well, Rand, as Jim pointed out, the mandatory part of 6104 is gone, and in fact doesn’t talk about commissions at all. Assuming of course it was ever there in the first place – Gateway Pundit didn’t read the bill, he was quoting somebody else.
6105 talks about commissions, but also doesn’t use the mandatory requirement.
Also in reading the bill, I note that volunteers would be given educational grants for their volunteer work, so I suspect that the cash-strapped element of the youth vote might be okay with it. A number of high schools in Illinois have a volunteer service requirement to graduate.
Committees sound innocuous. The provisions set out in Sections 155-158 of that bill do not.
R Anderson – what part of Subtitle E bothers you? All I see are requirements to take CPR classes and otherwise be prepared to assist in the event of a natural disaster. Sort of like the Boy Scouts.
Obviously I’m missing something.
Boy gee wiz you Republicans are really grasping for any fear you can tack onto Americans aren’t you?
9/11 = Lies.
WMD fears = Lies.
ACORN fears = Lies.
Obama the Muslim = Lies.
Terrorists at every corner = Lies.
Drill in the arctic to save us = Lies.
Bank deregulation = Lies.
and now… what else? More Lies??? How surprising!!!!!
Sorry republicans hags, we are NOT AFRAID of you bastards. You screwed up the US. Shut up and go back in your nasty filthy deadly holes.
It’s hilarious that you invoke Hitler because you act like a bunch of lame-ass clones of Joseph Goebbels.
Cleanup in aisle raaaa!
I note that volunteers would be given educational grants for their volunteer work,
If you’re paid for a job, it’s not “volunteer work.” Volunteer work means unpaid work, not “paid work that Chris happens to like.”
If you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, say so.
A number of high schools in Illinois have a volunteer service requirement
No, they don’t. “Volunteer requirement” is an oxymoron. If something is “required,” it is not voluntary. If you favor involuntary service to the State, say so.
Sort of like the Boy Scouts. Obviously I’m missing something.
Yes, you’re missing something. Boy Scouts are volunteers because they choose to donate their time, without compensation. Not because the government requires them to. Nor are taxpayers required to pay Scouts to perform “volunteer work” for the benefit of politicians.
To put it another way, Chris, someone who believes in volunteering will go out to park and rake the leaves himself, not mandate that other people rake the leaves for him or take money from someone else’s pocket to do it.
All I see are requirements to take CPR classes and otherwise be prepared to assist in the event of a natural disaster.
What you’re also missing is the usual brain-dead Gee this oughta work! one-size-fits-all cluelessness of central planning.
Id est, what about the kid who has a Down’s brother with severe complications, and his father has left the house, and his mother has two jobs? This guy already knows CPR, let us say, and he is already heroically contributing “service” in terms of taking care of his brother after school.
Now you want to come along and tell him he can’t go to college unless he signs up for some after-school program to take lunches to seniors — thus forcing his mother to hire a stranger to take care of the little brother. Furthermore, it turns out the program to take lunches to seniors works in a wealthy community, and altough the seniors in question can’t get around much, they’ve got plenty of dough to hire teenagers to run errands — and in fact, have been used to doing so. Now those teens are out of jobs.
Oh! you’ll say. Well of course we’ll add some sensible exceptions for special cases. And I’m sure you will, you’ll add all the reasonable exceptions that you can think of, and then you’ll add more when they turn up in the newspaper Tragic Choice Forced On Noble Teen By Dumfuk Law WIthout Exception. And what, pray, are the chances that among 300 million inhabitants — 300 million different individual stories — you’ll be able to think of all of the reasonable exceptions? Zero.
And then, of course, once you do have exceptions, there will be people who abuse them to cheat. What are you going to do about that? Oh! We’ll have some bureaucracy that monitors the system, weeds out cheats. Of course, that’s two million kids a year entering the program, Chris. How many bureaucrats does it take to monitor that many kids? What kind of powers are you going to give them? Too little, and you’ve created a cynical program with “rules” that everyone can, and will, ignore. Too much, and you’ve got the possibility for corruption. Listen kid, I know there’s this requirement, but I know a guy…
It’s stupid. Plain and simple. And it’s a criminal waste of time and money to “study” this non-problem, too. Like the President doesn’t have more meaningful things to do. Staff Treasury, maybe? Bone up on international protocol, the names of important leaders? Make sure the Russian specialists at State can speak Russian?
B) service-learning is a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.
service-learning = Socialism is GOOD
‘(II) includes as participants youths and young adults between the ages of 16 and 25, inclusive, including out-of-school youths and other disadvantaged youths (such as youths with limited basic skills, youths in foster care who are becoming too old for foster care, youths of limited-English proficiency, homeless youths, and youths who are individuals with disabilities), who are between those ages;
Are these the Gammas or Deltas?
> Sort of like the Boy Scouts.
Gerrib didn’t get the memo.
Boy Scouts are considered bad.
Well, since the mandatory part of the requirement got taken off of the Federal bill, I guess the kid taking care of his disabled brother can breathe easy now. Although, if he needs extra cash to go to college, he could sign up to volunteer. Maybe working with disabled kids at the rec center he already takes his brother too?
Andy Freeman – I’ll go out on a limb here and say the Boy Scouts are good. If that means my liberal card gets pulled, so be it. (Kinda doubt it, but it’s a risk I’ll take).
Edward (and others) – Please do not presume to lecture me about volunteer work. I just got out of a two-hour meeting for my (volunteer) Rotary medical equipment committee, on top of my other Rotary volunteer duties.
News flash here from somebody who actually runs volunteer organizations – if you want volunteers to show up, you have to give them something. It could be free pizza or a T-shirt, but it’s something.
Well Chris, from someone else who has run volunteer organizations(recycle stations, meal delivery, scholarship committees and others), no you don’t.
Chris, I wasn’t talking about CPR. I was talking about “Camps” that in the rewritten bill were renamed to “Campuses,” with “Superintendents” renamed “Campus Directors,” and in the latter section, provisions for “other compensation,” the only one of which that was explicitly stated was uniforms.
You want to serve the nation -and- wear a snazzy uniform? Great, there’s a DoD recruiter in almost every town in America, have at it. Otherwise, what’s the uniform for? A uniform separates “us” from “them,” which is why the Geneva conventions (even the parts the US has signed to, which isn’t all of them) demand all combatants wear a uniform, clearly distinguishing between the two (or more) sides, and keeping non-uniformed civillians out of the fight. So I ask – what conflict do you expect, that you’ll need uniforms to separate “us” from “them,” on US soil?
Incidentally, Chris, the CPR training you mention is in Section 156 of the bill I have in front of me. 155 deals with the renaming of terms that I outlined above. 157 deals with eligibility and selection of projects and how to propose them, and 158 deals with the authorized benefits. Incidentally, it is in Section 158 that the innocuous term “clothing” was changed to “uniforms.” Someone went out of their way to bring up uniforms. So again I ask, what purpose the uniforms?
News flash here from somebody who actually runs volunteer organizations – if you want volunteers to show up, you have to give them something.
Maybe you do, Chris. I don’t. Nor do a good many other people.
If you can’t get anyone to work for your “volunteer” organization without paying them, then they aren’t volunteers. No matter how you twist language.
Two more questions, Chris. Since you think no one ever does anything without payment, what sort of payment do you get for trolling here? And from whom?
sheesh, some things are so simple. This is America!!!! Forced faithfulness? Hell no!!!! To say our children will do what goverment wants? Hell no OMG have eyes? then see
whats really weird (and I am not the best Cristian) Jesus no longer mentioned in America or the world mostly. Hmmm Bible right?
…what purpose the uniforms?
To demonstrate your allegiance to Dear Leader, of course. Duh.
Bill Maron – you don’t have any volunteer appreciation events?
Edward Wright – giving a volunteer a T-shirt isn’t what I consider “payment.” It’s a token of appreciation. Maybe in a perfect world, volunteers don’t want stuff like that. But, as the commerical says, we don’t live anywhere near perfect.
Also, Edward, I am not trolling. I am asking questions and making statements on a public forum. Nobody is paying or giving me anything (other then grief) for doing so.
R Anderson – yes, uniforms separate “us” from “them.” Like in the Boy Scouts. Wearing a uniform is not inherently an evil act. Nor is renaming what was supposed to be a temporary installation a campus.
Now, it you’re going to go all John Birch Society on me and hunt for Reds under your bed, then having a reasonable conversation with you is impossible.
They get a big thank you, not money, not a place to stay and not a uniform.
“R Anderson – yes, uniforms separate “us” from “them.” Like in the Boy Scouts. Wearing a uniform is not inherently an evil act.”
This is a false comparison. Boy Scouts are a private group. In government service, uniforms are a sign on authority and serve as a warning that the wearer can make your life better or worse without any input from you.
> Now, it you’re going to go all John Birch Society on me and hunt for Reds under your bed
Interestingly enough, there were Communists in America.
I’m a generous person, so I’ll give Gerrib a clue.
The issue is not whether we are bad people. The issue is whether we are correct.
Being a bad person doesn’t mean that you’re wrong. And, unfortunately for Gerrib, being a good person (as he no doubt feels that he is), doesn’t mean that you’re correct.
I really think that people did vote for Obama because of the hopey change rhetoric. Once people actually see, ‘oh I have to actually change/do something different now for real’ then people will start to increasingly whine and protest. There was a comedian on Leno a few weeks back and said something like, “You know I’m starting to not like Obama so much (timid silence in crowd), when Bush was President I was like, ‘Oh, I can do that [be president]’ but with Obama being president looks way to difficult. On top of that, he wants me to actually work, geesh..”
Obama the community activist err organizer, or what evah, would no doubt have these long conversations with black leaders in Illinois and discuss how to deal with the problem of youth violence. They always talk about the young people misspend their energy on things that could be used to help the community, not tear it down. ‘Get the kids of the street and give them a direction’, they say. This sounds great, grand, and I’m all for it, but the only problem there are already programs to deal with this issues coming out of our ears. They make it sound like there is this great void community outreach that needs to be filled when in fact there are already a multitude of volunteer organizations, rec centers, community outreach, church this and that, and blah blah blah. Stand behind those entities I say, put resources into getting those programs bolstered. What works in Chicago, may not work in Miami so let the local organizers decide how to get the youth in their area focused. This is just a blatant opportunity to cram down our collective throats some pie in the sky ideal of how we should be contributing to the community at large.
I’ve done volunteer work a few times now my self. I’m still trying to figure out where the .34 cent coke and $1.50 in pizza I ate goes on my income tax return. I thought it would be around were you claim those massive earnings from jury duty but I’m not sure.
The issue is not whether we are bad people. The issue is whether we are correct.
No, the issue is that you’re paranoid. There were (and are) communists in America. But the Birchers got so paranoid that they accused Eisenhower of being a communist while missing real ones.
Ditto the uniform issue. Firemen and paramedics wear uniforms – do they oppress people?
Also, if you actually look at the bill, much of the money being spent is to encourage and support existing local volunteer groups.
Maybe in a perfect world, volunteers don’t want stuff like that. But, as the commerical says, we don’t live anywhere near perfect.
That’s because you live in Chicago. The real world is much bigger and better than the little world you live in. You should get out more.
Depending on how it plays out, this legislation might dovetail with changes to the Hope Scholarship tax credit and Lifetime Learning Credit turning those from being available to everyone to only available to students who volunteer.
I’d have a lot less problem with this if the student was the person choosing where to volunteer.
I do find it interesting that Gerrib considers it absolute that volunteers won’t work without incentives (which suggests a lack of understanding of the word “volunteers”). Yet, Gerrib also thinks that a 3% increase in taxes doesn’t disincentive workers to do less.
a T-shirt isn’t what I consider “payment.”
Of course you don’t. Like Humpty Dumpty, you think words mean whatever you want them to mean. Mandatory = “voluntary.” Paid employees = “volunteers.”
It’s fascinating that an Obama bomber is telling us “volunteers” are only in it for a t-shirt or a pizza.
I taught CPR for more than 10 years. I never got a t-shirt or a pizza, or asked for one. Neither did any of my students (aside from a few medical professionals who were paid to take the class, and they didn’t claim to be “volunteers.”).
I wonder. Do you think the Minutemen marched to Lexington and Concord in order to get pizza and t-shirts?
Also, Edward, I am not trolling. I am asking questions and making statements on a public forum.
Asking stupid questions and making foolish statements is what trolls do.
Nobody is paying or giving me anything (other then grief) for doing so.
Really? You just said you live in an “imperfect world” where nobody does anything without expecting something in return.
So, what are expecting in return? A t-shirt? A pizza? A well-paid “volunteer” job?
Did you vote for Obama? If so, what did you get in exchange for your vote? A pizza? A t-shirt?
No, the issue is that you’re paranoid.
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. I prefer to err on the side of paranoia. I suspect that there were a lot of Germans in the late 1930s who wished that they had been a little more “paranoid” a few year earlier.
Raaaa sounds lie a truther bastard.
Raaaa,
Suction service in aisle 5 needs your lying ass stat!