39 thoughts on “Shouting “Liar””

  1. The best thing about this dust-up is that, once again, the president’s prime-time appeal on health care has gotten stepped on by a political side show. (Remember his “stupidly” remark at the last one?) Obama didn’t pull the trigger this time, but it’s still a shot in their collective foot every time yet-another prominent Democrat piles-on about this. They louder they howl the more they bury his message.

    Ah Schadenfreude, sweet schadenfreude …

  3. Except all of the bills under discussion explicitly deny benefits to illegal aliens. And since every news show that has covered this tempest in a teacup has stated that simple fact, the only person who needed to apologize has done so.

  4. From the AP story of the outburst; I found this comment amusing:

    “There’ll be time enough to consider whether or not we ought to make it clear that that action is unacceptable in the House of Representatives,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said late Wednesday on WTOP radio when asked about possible punishment for Wilson.

    Punishment for Wilson?

    If Republicans had half a brain, they would be loudly demanding Democrats take care of the unacceptable behaviour of the Charlie Rangel before worrying about Wilson parroting Obama’s remarks.

  5. Except all of the bills under discussion explicitly deny benefits to illegal alien

    Really? That must explain why the Dems continue to vote down amendments that will do just that.

  6. Chris, even for you this is a new low in disingenuous denial.

    Explicitly denying benefits to illegal aliens is completely meaningless if you don’t have a means in place to verify their citizenship, which the Dems have already voted against. So this statement by Obama is nothing more than a cynical ‘nudge-nudge, wink-wink’ that fools nobody familiar with the details.

    Either you are ignorant or you are being decietful, and I don’t believe that you are THAT ignorant…

  7. More than a little bit historically funny that it was a representative of South Carolina. They’ve always been known to be the hotheads of the Union.

    Recall the scene from Idiocracy:

    President Camacho: Sh*t. I know sh*t’s bad right now, with all that starving bullsh*t, and the dust storms, and we are running out of french fries and burrito coverings. But I got a solution.

    South Carolina Representative # 1: That’s what you said last time, dipsh*t!

    South Carolina Representative # 2: Yeah, I got a solution, you’re a d*ck! South Carolina, what’s up!

    From 1830 to 2009, Rep. Wilson’s just staying true to his state!

    Too bad the other Republicans will throw him under the bus…

  9. Chris,
    Well, unless you include HR 3200.

    Based on a report by CRS (Congressional Research Service): The report, Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200, states definitively, “H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitizens – whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently – participating in the Exchange.” H.R. 3200 establishes a Health Insurance Exchange which would provide individuals and small businesses with access to health care plans, including the “public option” to be managed by the government.

  11. So you’re defending disrespectful behavior eh? Well, if the President was lying, then this should have been stated in the opposing viewpoint, which the President would not have interrupted with an ugly outburst. At least most of Wilson’s Republican colleagues properly thought his outburst was totally without class and, while one can argue with Obama’s words, that’s not what this was.

  13. Section 246 of the bill clearly states that no Federal payment for undocumented aliens

    Those are subsidies to cover co-pays. Didn’t you read the bill?

  14. Titus, there is nothing today to stop an illegal alien from buying whatever insurance they want. This bill does not change that policy. It does not allow for Federal subsidies to buy coverage.

  15. “Not allow for Federal subsidies to buy coverage” != “explicitly deny benefits”

    It may seem a hair-splitting distinction to non-lawyers like you and me, but to our rulers president and lawmakers it’s big enough to drive a fleet of 18-wheelers through.

  17. It’s sorta like how the Koran contains passages which contradict other passages. The bill is so immense and convoluted that its defenders can say anything with the expectation that somewhere in it they can find a passage in support. And there’s something wrong with the whole process when you’ve gotta start using abrogation to justify a law’s passage.

  18. I liked it. I despise the snoozathon faux gentility of American political theater — it’s hard to call it “debate” when no serious debating is allowed.

    Several years ago I visited the House of Commons in England. What a contrast! There were hoots and cheers from the galleries, and yeah people would shout out such things if they were spot on — which this was, Chris’s charming asskissery notwithstanding — and even the Prime Minister when he came to give a speech had to defend himself on his feet from tough questions from the opposition.

    This crap where the American President gets to wrap himself up in the trappings of the office, hide behind TelePrompTers, like he’s some kind of God-damned king or emperor, too august to have to answer hecklers, is garbage. This is not the robust republic of free men, this is a sick parody of the late Roman Empiore, in decline at that.

  19. It may seem a hair-splitting distinction to non-lawyers like you and me, but to our rulers president and lawmakers it’s big enough to drive a fleet of 18-wheelers through.

    Again, the Prez said:

    There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

    That is a lie. He didn’t say, “…claim that income tax credits will be paid to illegal immigrants.” It doesn’t take a lawyer to see the difference.

  20. since the benefit in question is Federal cash, your “hair-splitting distinction” is actually rather important.

    They still get their costs subsidized by the “federal cash” from those new taxes listed in HR3200. The public school analogy is apt.

  21. How can Pelosi get away with saying things like this: “”There’s a cap on what you pay in in premiums. There’s no cap on what you receive back.”

    Incredible. The level of denial on this topic should be a PhD thesis, or it’s own subcategory in the DSM.

  22. As I said Charles, this is astonishing disingenous even for you. Arguing that the law will not provide benefits to illegal aliens when that will be precisely the effect (because of inadequate provisions for enforcement, provisions explicitly struck down by Democratic majorities) is to create a distinction without a difference. Would you suggest that a ban on underage drinking was real if bartenders and shopkeepers were forbidden to ask for proof of age?

    If you want to give benefits to illegals (this is not my choice, but the argument can be made) admit it, but to pretend that removing the provisions for enforcement would have any other effect but to make prohibitions on such benefits nonsense is to…how shall I put this….to LIE.

    Wilson was rude, and I believe that any POTUS (even a POS like The One ™) deserves respect while making a speech to congress. I won’t defend his interrupting the speech, but what he said was true. Don’t disgrace yourself (you haven’t fallen into Jim territory yet) by trying to defend the indefensible.

  23. Well yea, the timing of the venue may not have been the best place to say it but I think it is about time someone openly shouted down this President and hit outright lies.

  24. There’s an aspect to Rand’s headline about which I wondered: if you should “liar!” in a crowded Congress, how many people flinch?

  26. How exactly does somebody who doesn’t file income taxes get a tax credit? Or a Federal subsidy? Under this bill, nobody is handing out free insurance cards at the local bodega. So please explain to me under what mechanism an illegal will benefit from this bill.

  27. How exactly does somebody who doesn’t file income taxes get a tax credit?

    They don’t, but illegal immigrants often file tax returns.

  28. Chris says: So please explain to me under what mechanism an illegal will benefit from this bill.

    They will purchase subsidized insurance through the exchange the same as anyone else without a steady job. Or they can just wander up to the ER for free like they do now.

    Leland says: They don’t, but illegal immigrants often file tax returns.

    True enough. All that’s required is a TIN; you don’t need to buy a fake SSN card from the guy at MacArthur park — the IRS does not enforce immigration laws. I suspect (hope) they’d catch these, though.

  30. How exactly does somebody who doesn’t file income taxes get a tax credit?

    I seem to remember a whole bunch of whining (not from you Chris; I didn’t know you then) about how the Bush tax cuts were unfair to people who don’t pay income tax.

    Said whiners would certainly be only too happy to find a way to extend a “tax credit” of some kind to people who don’t file, if only because offering it to them <cha-ching!> would cause them to file.

  31. Josh, that’s hilarious. I have to say, though, that the eyebeam lasers and “pew pew pew” sound effects were a bit over the top… 😉

  32. Oh, I know. It is crazy what they can do with plastic surgery now days. Gimme some of that congress healthcare. I want metal legs.

  33. He’s going to pass amnesty much more easily that this bill anyway, so the whole topic is moot.

    “Look ma, it didn’t apply to a single illegal in any way shape or form! It was not a lie!”

  34. I guess it was different when DOZENS of Dems booed GWB during his State of the Union a few years ago? It’s a fine line between booing and yelling what you believe to be the truth IMHO. But then again, Bush was a “C” Student, stealer of office, rich kid, frat boy, and Obama is “The One”.

    I guess a Messianic figure should get preferential treatment.

    (I gagged a little writing that)

  35. Sharpen, you mean you “threw up a little in your mouth”. The digestive system is the immune system in liberal organisms for contrary ideas. Bile accumulates on any idea perceived as not belonging to the organism, rendering it harmless. In a surprise twist, researchers have discovered that despite this sophisticated array of defenses liberals retain the ability to regurgitate correct ideas to their young. Truly a marvel of nature!

  36. I’ve been fighting the flu Karl, and not H1N1 thank God, so it could have been a coincidence, but I doubt that given the topic. But minimal rear oral reverse peristalsis it was.

  37. In a related story, archaeologists have uncovered an ancient scroll, in which members of the Roman Senate demand that the famous orator and defender of the republic Marcus Tullius Cicero aopologize for his “intemperate” and “rude” remarks about demagogue Lucius Sergius Catilina (aka “Cataline”).

    No evidence has yet come forth indicating that Cicero ever did apologize to Catiline. Unlike modern day capital-r Republicans, Cicero had a quality ancient Romans called “backbonus.”

  38. No evidence has yet come forth indicating that Cicero ever did apologize to Catiline. Unlike modern day capital-r Republicans, Cicero had a quality ancient Romans called “backbonus.”

    Me thinks Cicero probably expanded the scope of the rude and incosiderate remarks.

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