No matter how much the White House and the MSM want them to, about the birth certificate. Tom Maguire lays out the state of play. Put me in category three, along with his reader (as I’ve said, though not so clearly, for many months):
I would also posit that there are THREE “camps” of thought that get lumped into the “birther” category.
The first two are as [AllahPundit] stated.
The third is where I would put myself – a person:
1) who wonders why it is so difficult for Obama to provide an actual Birth Certificate; and
2) who sees a connection between the lack of details and secrecy regarding Obama’s birth and the lack of details and secrecy about so much else of Obama’s life – his connections to Ayers, his grades in college, the papers he published, the lectures he taught, etc.I don’t think Obama was born in Kenya or any other place other than Hawaii.
But I find it outrageous and ridiculous that we know more about Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber than we know about Obama.
Yup.
For someone who is supposedly all about transparency, his past seems to be quite opaque. And the uncuriosity on the part of the media would be puzzling, if one actually took them at their word about, you know, “afflicting the comfortable, and comforting the afflicted.” Because Barack Obama seems to be pretty damned comfortable to me. And those of us who are afflicted with concern about just what kind of president we have need, if not a little comfort, at least a little honesty. Or at least an honest attempt to get it from this White House. We’re not so stupid, though, as to suspend respiration while waiting.
In addition to that, his grades might raise another question: how did he get into Harvard?
Or they might not.
But to humor you, imagine that his Columbia and Occidental grades were poorer than those of most of his Harvard Law School classmates. All you have discovered is that HLS admissions was uncommonly wise in accepting him despite those grades, since he was more successful at HLS (graduating magna cum laude, helming the law review, garnering rave reviews from his professors) than most of his classmates.
All you have discovered is that HLS admissions was uncommonly wise in accepting him despite those grades, since he was more successful at HLS (graduating magna cum laude, helming the law review, garnering rave reviews from his professors) than most of his classmates.
How would we know that all of those things didn’t have the same cause as what got him into Harvard in the first place (e.g., his skin color and his personal charm)? Not that I’m very impressed by Harvard’s non-science academics.
Indeed! Like the moon fraud people, it is worth asking whether there anything that would convince you — in this case, that Obama is not some sort of fraud?
Like the moon fraud people, it is worth asking whether there anything that would convince you — in this case, that Obama is not some sort of fraud?
No, there’s already plenty of evidence of that. Overwhelming, in fact. As I said, I’m just curious to know what he thinks is politically damaging to him in the stuff he won’t show us.
If you can’t trust a guy whose political philosophy is based on legalized looting, who can you believe?
While I suppose it is possible that Obama got great grades in college and doesn’t want that known out of a sense of humility, that’s not the way to bet. When you go through this much trouble to hide something, it’s usually because that something is harmful to you. That is human nature and logic.
Human nature and logic are both alien concepts to the left.
“When you go through this much trouble to hide something, it’s usually because that something is harmful to you. That is human nature and logic.”
Especially when the human in question is a politician.
Are there any Democrats holding elective office at the Federal level who you think are smart?
Are there any Democrats holding elective office at the Federal level who you think are smart?
At least some of the ones who voted against the health-care bill.
Yes, that is true. He could be hiding them for a variety of other reasons, but it’s the only compelling reason to hide them. That is, if there’s something damaging, he must hide them, but if there isn’t, he can go either way. A little Bayesian probability or game theory analysis would likely lead to the conclusion that most folks here are making.
All of that is a far cry from your original assertion: that it’s begging the question.
“Most observers come to the conclusion that Obama is quite bright. You come to the opposite conclusion.”
Say, what?! Most observers who hear Obama speak without a teleprompter think he may actually be retarded. In fact, the only person I’ve ever heard comment favorably about the President’s intellect after having an actual conversation with him was Buzz Aldrin. Buzz may have been more than kind, because the President was saying what Buzz wanted him to.
MfK, I listed an example of where I thought the president demonstrated intelligence — his remarks at the House Republican Retreat. Maybe I could find a more impressive example – but I’m happy with the one I listed.
Here’s a transcript as well as a video:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/29/transcript-of-president-o_n_442423.html
Scroll down (or fast forward on video) for the unscripted part.
Do you have a counter-example, or would you like to argue that his remarks at the House Republican retreat indicated a lack of intelligence?
So Bob, being long winded == intelligent?
I think the President’s remarks demonstrated intellectual agility, but if you say “nah, he was just being longwinded”, what am I supposed to say?
Here’s a thought: When psychologists want to analyze someone’s intelligence, they often look at the person’s sentence structure. It is certainly an imperfect metric, but given the political partisanship in this conversation, maybe that sort of objective measurement would be helpful here. If you really wanted to pursue this, we could look into using various objective measurements.
An alternative would be to find a non-partisan judge, but I’m not sure one can be found here. If I had to nominate someone, I suppose I’d nominate Jon Goff (like he doesn’t have better things to do). Jon has made it clear he doesn’t think much of Obama, but he seems like a fair-minded sort to me.
All I know is that Paul Ryan ate his lunch at the health-care “summit.”
I’m sorry Bob, but I don’t think being able to sound like a local news anchor is necessarily a sign of intelligence.
Unlike a news anchor, Obama actually listened to what the congressmen had to say, and then replied with counter-arguments that took their concerns into account. His arguments were detailed, and on-point. In terms of intelligence, as opposed to political philosophy, what else would you want? Moreover, MfK, look at the latter half of the transcript. Are you seriously argue that Obama sounds “retarded”?
“Do you have a counter-example, or would you like to argue that his remarks at the House Republican retreat indicated a lack of intelligence?”
I don’t need any. Between looking at prepared notes, to answer the questions he knew would be coming, and his rambling punctuated with “uh,” I don’t need provide any. Do you think he answered any questions? OMG.
Well, you’ll be taking the short bus to work, won’t you?
BTW, a COLB can be both valid and wrong. It’s a secondary document created by a clerk provided with the information to put on it. It’s a great candidate for inserting false information the same as a newspaper birth announcement. My ‘father’ created actually legal fraudulant birth certificates by buying an old bible and putting false birth record into it and using that to get the legal documents. He did it for a number of last name changes for six kids for over a decade.
A Certification of Live Birth is only issued when a birth certificate cannot be located in the records.
Response to the bogus fact check.
Regarding the newspaper announcements.
This is cute. I didn’t know this, just ran across it…
Obama’s half sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, who we know, for sure, was born in Indonesia to Obama’s mother and step father, also has the very same Hawaiian “certificate of live birth” as Barack.
Bob-1,
No one here is asserting that Obama is of sub-nominal intelligence, just that he may not be as smart as the Obama of myth and legend. Being able to carry on a normal conversation hardly rates with the “smartest guy in the room” meme that he and his followers seem believe in.
All I hear Bob-1 defending is action NOT taken by other Presidents. Everyone called Bush dumb yet he had better grades than Kerry. Everyone said Gore was smarter than Bush yet he failed in Divinity school. So, Bob, why are Obama’s school records worth hiding when no one else does it? If you stopped drinking the Kool-Aid, you would see how untenable your position is.
Comical! People who want to invade someone’s privacy always ask “what do you have to hide” to insinuate guilt. They can insinuate all they want, but no one should feel obligated to give up their privacy just to quiet the insinuations. What’s comical? Libertarians generally understand this! Again, consider the case of Republican candiate for the IL senate seat Jack Ryan.
People who want to invade someone’s privacy always ask “what do you have to hide” to insinuate guilt.
Asking to see the college records of someone who wants to be the leader of the free world is “invading his privacy”? Really? Would you say the same of a potential employer? Do you have any conception of how absurd you sound?
Again, consider the case of Republican candiate for the IL senate seat Jack Ryan.
As was the case with Bill Clinton, if you aspire to be a public figure, it’s a good idea to not do things that you don’t want to read about in the Washington Post.
Does he understand the conceptual difference between private individual and public figure?
Meanwhile, Obamacare invades our privacy.
Comical!
How would we know that all of those things didn’t have the same cause as what got him into Harvard in the first place (e.g., his skin color and his personal charm)?
If Obama is capable of getting good grades by means that you consider illegitimate, why on earth would you care what his grades at Occidental and Columbia were?!? You’re basically saying: show me the grades, if they’re bad I’ll know you’re dumb, and if they’re good I’ll know you didn’t earn them.
And you wonder why he might not see any upside in releasing his grades, regardless of how good or bad they were?
Asking to see the college records of someone who wants to be the leader of the free world is “invading his privacy”? Really?
So if Sarah Palin runs for president you’ll demand that she release her transcripts? I look forward to that.
If Obama is capable of getting good grades by means that you consider illegitimate, why on earth would you care what his grades at Occidental and Columbia were?!?
Because I remain justifiably curious to know what he’s hiding. And the more you feign outrage at my curiosity, the more curious I become.
So if Sarah Palin runs for president you’ll demand that she release her transcripts?
If one of her campaign theme is how academically brilliant she is, certainly.
While I suppose it is possible that Obama got great grades in college and doesn’t want that known out of a sense of humility, that’s not the way to bet. When you go through this much trouble to hide something, it’s usually because that something is harmful to you. That is human nature and logic.
Not releasing your transcripts isn’t “going to a lot of trouble.” I can’t think of a scenario where releasing his grades would help him, no matter what those grades were, so the fact that he hasn’t released them tells us nothing.
I don’t think that Obama worries much about whether he seems smart enough. He’s got public credentials that are more than impressive enough for people who have an open mind, and if magna cum laude from Harvard Law School and being president of the law review aren’t enough to convince his opponents, nothing will.
Sounds like someone needs to remind Michelle Obama that the U.S.A is Barry’s home country.
As I said, I’m just curious to know what he thinks is politically damaging to him in the stuff he won’t show us.
You’re assuming the answer again. He doesn’t have to think something is politically damaging to refrain from publishing it, he just has to think that it doesn’t help him. And what could possibly be in his transcripts that would help him?
There was a rumor (repeated in the movie “W”) that George W. Bush had paid for a girlfriend’s abortion. To my knowledge Bush never publicly answered a question about that. Let’s assume that his honest answer would be “no, I never paid for a girlfriend’s abortion.” Can you see why it’s still in his interest to not answer the question at all? Or, looking at it the other way, can you see that there is no possible answer to that question that would help Bush?
And the more you feign outrage at my curiosity, the more curious I become.
You aren’t curious, Rand. You have no interest in Obama’s school records unless they are damaging, and you’ve confused your interest in that reality with the reality itself.
Despite your failed attempt at mind reading, I remain curious to see what he doesn’t want me to see. It’s only human nature. I don’t understand why this is such a difficult concept.
Well, actually, for you, I do. And I remain amused at your pathetic defense of his secrecy.
There was a rumor (repeated in the movie “W”) that George W. Bush had paid for a girlfriend’s abortion.
One of these things is not like the other.
Jim, can you or Bob explain to me why it’s unreasonable to ask a candidate for president of the United States for the same information any other job applicant would supply?
This should be entertaining, if not enlightening.
“Jim, can you or Bob explain to me why it’s unreasonable to ask a candidate for president of the United States for the same information any other job applicant would supply?”
The MSM reports on passage of the bill in Arizona don’t tell much about the content, but contain plenty of invective from the left. The most bizarre was that the bill is “racist and xenophobic.”
Racist? How so? Xenophobic? Uh, it is a constitutional requirement that the President be U.S. born. You don’t like it, change the constitution.
Jim, can you or Bob explain to me why it’s unreasonable to ask a candidate for president of the United States for the same information any other job applicant would supply?
If you are in your 40s, with an honors graduate degree and distinguished post-graduate employment history, no sensible employer is going to ask you for your college transcript.
If you are in your 40s, with an honors graduate degree and distinguished post-graduate employment history, no sensible employer is going to ask you for your college transcript.
They would if he had no previous experience at the sort of job being applied for. And what was his “distinguished” post-grad employment history?
I am always amazed at the emotional investment some people make in celebrities.
They would if he had no previous experience at the sort of job being applied for.
Do you think Mickey Kaus should release his college grades, because he has no experience being a U.S. Senator? Do you think Ronald Reagan released his college grades when he ran for Governor of California?
I can’t believe that you really think that 20+ year old college grades are somehow more relevant to performance in a new job than the things done since college.
And what was his “distinguished” post-grad employment history?
He was a highly regarded faculty member at U. Chicago, one of the country’s top five law schools. He had passed notable legislation in Illinois (e.g. death penalty reform, ethics reform) and as a U.S. Senator (Nunn-Lugar, ethics reform). His performance over a decade in elected office was far more relevant than his grades at Columbia.
FWIW, I’ve applied for (and gotten) two jobs in my post-college life, as a teacher and as a computer programmer, and in neither case was I asked for a college transcript. I’ve hired college-educated employees, and never asked for their transcripts. Out of curiosity, Rand, when was the last time you had to furnish a transcript?
Do you think Mickey Kaus should release his college grades, because he has no experience being a U.S. Senator?
If he makes a big point in his campaign about how academically brilliant he is (as Obama did), then of course he should.
We know less about Obama’s past than we do ANY. OTHER. PRESIDENT. This I believe is cause for concern. What we do know he claims isn’t true… oh, he’s just a guy that lives in my neighborhood. oh, I didn’t hear anything on sunday for the past twenty years. …my muslim faith (don’t you mean christian?) Oh, right, let me make this perfectly clear… I am a christian… Liberation Theology is, isn’t it? We need to fix the constitution so my political supporters get to share the wealth of those that create the wealth.
I meant to include a link: Liberation Theology which interprets the bible such that Jesus was a Marxist.
If he makes a big point in his campaign about how academically brilliant he is (as Obama did), then of course he should.
You assert that college transcripts are something “any other job applicant” would supply, but you don’t really believe that. Then, that it’s relevant if the applicant has “no previous experience at the sort of job being applied for,” but you don’t believe that either. Now it’s back to this dubious assertion that Obama ran on his undergraduate academic record.
Obama made no secret of the fact that he’d graduated with honors from Harvard Law School, was president of the law review, and taught at a top-tier law school. But that’s all the “big point about how academically brilliant he is” that I recall. He didn’t brag about being a great student in high school (in fact he wrote that he hadn’t been a star student), or being a standout in college. You’re asking him to prove something he never claimed, simply because you don’t like the implications of his excellent record in law school and at U. Chicago.
We know less about Obama’s past than we do ANY. OTHER. PRESIDENT.
Correction: You know less about Obama.
Your ignorance is not evidence of a conspiracy.