26 thoughts on “Democracy In Egypt”

  1. Keep in mind that leftists like Andrew Sullivan support these monsters, simply because they want to exterminate Jews in revenge for the Jews’ invention of circumcision.

  2. I’m skeptical of the translation, but fortunately, this should be easy to verify. The story is only being reported on right wing blogs (mostly if not all American in origin), but not in the Israeli newspapers (correct me if I’m wrong). You’d think the rightward leaning Jerusalem Post would report it (and the left-leaning Haaretz too) as it matters to them a hell of a lot more to them than it does to American bloggers. I’ll watch with interest to see if the translation and story are confirmed.

  3. Without really knowing one way or the other, I’m willing to bet this translation is complete BS. Google the phrase “To Jerusalem we are heading, martyrs in the millions” and look who is reporting it and who is not. I think this is just a lot of gullible bloggers re-posting nonsense.

  4. Bob-1 Says:

    February 23rd, 2011 at 10:35 am

    The story is only being reported on right wing blogs (mostly if not all American in origin), but not in the Israeli newspapers (correct me if I’m wrong). You’d think the rightward leaning Jerusalem Post would report it (and the left-leaning Haaretz too)…

    That millions of Arab Muslims are screaming to be martyrs and kill Jews is NOT NEWS for any Israeli newspaper. It’s fairly commom fare at Friday sermons throughout the Arab world.

    Bob-1 Says:

    February 23rd, 2011 at 11:22 am
    The translation is called out as a hoax here:

    So National Review is NOT a reputable source, but commenters at DavidIcke.com are? Come on!

  5. Hey, they can recognize reptilians, can’t they? I’m sure they’re excellent translators …

    On the other hand, I wouldn’t be too worried about a Brotherhood mob making it to Jerusalem. They’ll get about as far as they can walk. Which won’t be far.

  6. C’mon Bob Wun, put up some stakes. It’s easy to just challenge everything at zero cost. The odds favor your being right sooner or later. But even in Scrabble you’re suppose to put up stakes so challenge is taken seriously and you don’t end up consulting Webster’s Third Unabridged to see what the spelling of “is” is.

    Say…if the English translation is not substantially accurate, Rand posts an update that says Bob One was so damn right, alas. I am humiliated and do repent. If, on the other hand, it is, then you make your next three TT posts with the callsign “Doofus-1” instead of “Bob-1.”

    Regular TT’s can make side-bets, except in those jurisdictions where that would be illegal. I’ll put a quatloo on Rand.

  7. I don’t know who Icke is, by the way. Apologies if he is icky. I do welcome other stakes proposals – just can’t type at the moment but I’m pretty confident about my bet.

  8. David Icke???

    OMG. I’ve never seen someone’s credibility shrink so small so fast. Congratulations — or something — Bob-1!

    By the way, Bob-1, there’s this thing called the “internet,” where you can look stuff like “who is David Icke” up. You’ve heard of that, haven’t you?

  9. However nuts Icke is, the link provided the clue I needed, so I shared it with everyone here. The clue was that the people were saying “palace”, not “Jerusalem”.

    I’ll provide a complete argument for the case that people were saying “palace”, meaning Mubarak’s presidential palace, as time permits.

    In the meantime, Carl or anyone else interested in the bet might consider what a convincing argument would look like.

  10. And Andrea, why not put up some stakes yourself? My proposal: If I’m right, you’ll refrain from making nasty remarks here for three months. Remarks with actual substance are fine with me. If the translation is right, I’ll stop posting here altogether for three months. Deal?

  11. Ooh, the “nasty remarks” accusation! I’m being accused by another liberal pooh-bear of Not Being Nice™! It’s strange, I can’t seem to find my “I care about this” button. In fact, the entire control panel that liberals seem to think people have installed so they can be manipulated is not only missing, but I can’t even find a place where it might have been installed! Gosh, I guess I just came defective out of the factory!

  12. No problem Andrea, just make Carl the arbitrator of what is nasty or not. I’d offer myself, but personally, I think you are way too tame.

  13. I would completely accept Carl as a judge. But is anyone actually going to bet anything? Carl, for all your talk about putting up or shutting up, so far you’ve only bet pretend money!

  14. the people were saying “palace”, not “Jerusalem”.

    And it was “martyrs in the dozens” right?

  15. I’ll bet my share of the stimulous money!

    Curt: I’m sure that “palace” totally sounds like “Jerusalem” in Arabic. Really. Go to Google translator and try it! (Use the “listen” function. And no, “qasr” and “Al Quds” don’t sound at all alike.)

  16. Wait…what, Bob? Why am I part of your bet with The Establishment? I have no opinion on the video, since I don’t speak Arabic. Your beef is with Rand, not me. I just put up a side bet on the result.

  17. I’m skeptical of the translation

    Yes Bob, it’s so out of character for Muslims to want to conquer Jerusalem.

    Yes Bob, it’s crazy to think Muslims would kill themselves to kill others.

    Yes Bob, none of the millions of bloggers ever scoop a handful of ‘the real media.’

    Yes Bob, your credibility is rising.

  18. =
    Part 1 of 3 Martin Kramer’s comment
    Part 2 of 3 Other commenters
    Part 3 of 3 Rand is being manipulated

    Part 1 Martin Kramer

    The short version of the following: Martin Kramer thinks they were saying “To the Palace”.

    Martin Kramer is a Senior Fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem, and President-designate of Shalem College. He is also the Wexler-Fromer Fellow at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy. He is a heavy duty expert on middle eastern affairs. He speaks Arabic. If you doubt his credentials, google him. Visit his website, his wikipedia entry, various write-ups about him, etc. Rand and the majority of the readers of this blog would largely agree with his political positions regarding the middle east. Like anyone else, he is fallible, but I think you’ll agree that he is worth listening to.

    He commented on the contention that the protesters were chanting “To Jerusalem” here:

    Now, if you read both of Kramer’s comments, you might wonder who this Qaradawi character is, and that gets to the heart of the question about the video: which crowd is the video depicting? Is it depicting the crowds of people who filled Tahrir Square before Mubarak stepped down, or is it depicting the victory celebration a week later? At the celebration, Qaradawi, an 84 year old exiled radical, returned to Egypt and gave a moderate speech addressed to his fellow Christians and Muslims. But he did mention Jerusalem, and that part was a bit inflammatory. Kramer watched the exact spot on the video where he brought up the subject. As he notes, the crowd did not chant.

    Kramer, an Arabic speaker, says it sounds to him like the crowd said “To the Palace”. He also notes that “To the palace we are heading, martyrs in the millions” was a key Tahrir slogan.

    And indeed, if you look back through the twitter archives of the days of the Egyptian protests, you can see this. Here’s one I found:

  19. Part 2: Other commenters

    What do other people think?

    Kramer says he has asked native Arabic speakers, and they didn’t hear “To Jerusalem”.

    At Jihad Watch, which is where the Corner’s Andrew McCarthy picked up the story (before Jihad Watch removed the story) there was this exchange:

    Jan Douwe asked “Just read in some youtube comments that this may be a hoax, or rather a mistranslation that resulted in a spreading rumor. The comment said that they are really shouting “To the palace we are heading, martyrs in the millions”. Does the Arab word for palace sound similar to “Al Quds”?

    Jan returns and comments “Palace in Arab seems to be “Al Qasr”. Correct me if im wrong anybody! But if indeed fake we shouldnt shoot ourselves in the knee with spreading it any further.”

    Dennis replies “I’m not sure that that is what they are chanting. It’s almost impossible hear clearly, but what they chant is much shorter. There is no reference to this in the strip of writing that moves below the screen. And there is no date, just ‘Now in Tahrir Square’. I haven’t heard of such large crowds going back into the square recently. Can this be checked? And, just to confirm for Jan Douwe, the Arabic for ‘palace’ is indeed qasr. It’s not really like quds at all, but a willing ear might find it so. It makes a lot more sense.”

    At youtube, the video received this comment: “LIES LIES LIES LIES
This is not true we never chanted anything about Palestine in this protest.
This and the voice on the audio in this message is not clear
Egyptians were not out there for Palestine
We were out to get our freedom from a dictator
I resent that some one put such a title on this video
Although I feel for any oppressed human being however this was about
Egypt not Palestine . If there someone who is spreading and misleading people to understand otherwise I urge you to talk to Egyptians .

    Please reply to my message and I connect you
 with Egyptians who were in Tahrir Square

    It also received this comment, from someone who is no fan of Israel
    “DUmb propaganda bastards… they dont say what the title of this clip says… they say TO THE PALACE WE GO, MARTYRS IN THE MILLIONS. F**k all you western white pigs. Making Lies is all you can do… by the way honostly .. they should march for Israel and whipe it off of the face of the earth indeed. away with the hate state!

    (He might wish they were saying “To Jerusalem”, but he knows they aren’t.)

    The video is also discussed here:
    “archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2011/02/million-egyptians-in-tahrir-square.html” where it received these comments:
    Bred said: “I came across this very same video a couple of days back and some comments beneath it claimed they are saying to the palace we will go!”

DanJo said: “With my ears, “to the palace” sounds a bit like “ee al alcous” and “to Jerusalem” sounds a bit like “ee al qud oos”. I think I am hearing the first one in the chants. I work with a native Arabic speaker who is back in my workplace tomorrow. I’ll get him to listen too.
Searching the Net, I can’t find a single reputable site that is carrying this, they’re all wacko End of Days, or conspiracy theory, or extremist, or alarmist sites. And boy are there lots of those, everyone is terribly excited by it.
    There’s more at other websites — just google “To Jerusalem we are heading, martyrs in the millions.” and the word “palace”.

    By the way, on the same site, as well as on a number of youtube sites, there is the suggestion that the video is a mashup — the video is from the post-Mubarak day of celebration but the audio is from the pre-Mubarak days, when the crowd was threatening to march to the palace. I didn’t pursue this theory, but I saw links to people who did — search youtube.

    I also saw at least one video in which the original video had been posted, but then was taken down and replaced with an apology — “Millions In Egypt Chant = Fake Translation” “www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBRScthFXCc”

  20. Part 3 of 3: Rand is being manipulated by people like “the Angry Arab”.


    So how did this story get started? Rand linked to Andrew McCarthy at the corner, who in turn linked to Jihad Watch. At Jihad Watch, the story has been taken down. Yup, follow the link from Rand’s site, and you’ll see that the Corner’s link doesn’t work anymore, although the rest of its archive is intact.

    I don’t know who started it, but look again at what Kramer says: the story was propagated by the Angry Arab. Google “Angry Arab” and visit the Angry Arab’s website – he’s a communist who hates anyone with power in the middle east. Surely he speaks Arabic, but as Kramer points out, he is not somebody you can trust.

    The claim is extraordinary, and it yet the claim is only being reported on extremist blogs. This is news that would have rocked the Israeli news media. It would have made headlines in the Jerusalem Post. It also would have been a sensation on Al Jazeera, and it certainly would have gotten at least some play on CNN — much as the Iranian warships passing through the Suez canal did. But nope, just extremist hate sites, despite the very public nature of the event. The situation is similar to reading that aliens have landed in Central Park New York but somehow it is only being reported on UFO sites…. … it is going to be hard to convince the UFO people that there isn’t a massive cover-up, but there is no reason you yourself should believe it. Sites like this one and sites like the Angry Arab are just two sides of the same coin — both vested in a narrative of hate, and both feed off each other.

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