No, it wouldn’t. Turkey used to be pretty well a secular state, and the more Islamic it gets the less friendly it gets.
IMHO the best we are ever (at least in less than centuries) to get is neutral, and the only way we’re getting that is for most of the Ummah to be converted into a radioactive desert.
“Turkey would be a good example.”
The jury is still out on that one.
Even Turkey is contending with a jihad-leaning movement aimed at making its state less secular and more theocratic.
Heh. Fletcher and Wodun posted while I was still drafting my comment.
Are reports of the West’s good relations with the Turks accurate?
Critics (and Islamic supremacists) say that the Koran commands Muslims of all generations to war with all the Earth’s infidels until all the infidels have been exterminated or conquered (i.e. agree to pay the jizya). Obviously, this sort of thing isn’t conducive to cordial Islam-West relations. Mustafa Akyol must address this. To make his case, he must be able to demonstrate with honest linguistic analysis (as opposed to the sort of textual sleight-of-hand behind Kelo v. City of New London) that Mohammed’s military commands were issued to his contemporaries and not to future generations.
Apostasy is a key issue in Akyol’s article. I find it interesting that these courts don’t offer the accused the option of paying the jizya, as even the Jihadi-friendly interpretations of the Koran allow.
The jury is still out on that one.
Maybe was refering to the Atatürk administration, the de-Islam-ifying one. That I could see…
PJM has had some good articles about how things might not be as grim as those on the right would like to believe but still not all unicorn farts like the left seems to think.
No offense, dudes, but if you haven’t kept up with things Turkish since Cal Coolidge was in office, maybe you ought to catch up your reading first. Just sayin’.
Yeah, Turkey is not the example I would choose. I’d say Jordan first if narrowly focused on Islamic Middle Eastern countries. But move outside ME, and there are many Islamic nations that are better than Turkey.
@Dick Eagleson. Coolidge? When it comes to the Muslim world, even if you haven’t kept up since Charlemagne, you haven’t really missed much.
Turkey would be a good example.
If that’s the best example it’s a good reason for outlawing Islam as a non religion. People are people everywhere (which means a distribution of good and bad) and I met a lot of good friendly people in Turkey.
But to equate a friendly turkey with a friendly Islam is flat out wrong.
Istanbul includes Islam as tourism. That’s not Islam. I felt the need to hire a street urchin to provide an element of safety while in the country but was still accosted by an Islamic teenager. Adults selling to tourist are no indication of friendship. It’s just an indication of business the world over because people are still people.
Ken, but isn’t tourism the foundation of Islam? If the merchants serving the pagan tourist trade in Mecca hadn’t cut a deal with Muhammed to keep the tourists coming, one of the pillars of Islam would be missing. If the Umayyads of Damascus hadn’t been cut off from the Mecca/Medina tourist trade, they wouldn’t have invented the idea that Jerusalem was the third holy city in Islam, which was supposedly an evenings ride from Mecca. Thus the legend of a winged horse, the Crusades (because European tourists had been cut off) and a thousand years of bloodshed extending to the present day.
It’s all about the tourists.
Megalomania is the foundation of Islam. Tourism is just free enterprise. The fact that tourism affected the origins of Islam as you well pointed out really has nothing to do with Islam itself.
Hey wackos, come cut my head off. Mohammed was that centuries Charlie Manson. Mohammed was a pervert and has many pervert followers from his time to ours. If they had any honor, they all go off someplace by themselves and honor kill themselves. I hear they have enough explosives.
Before anyone gets their panties in a twist… I’m not referring to Muslims that are not perverts or other good Muslims that protect and honor their families and others. Every baby born has parents. That’s not the problem. Teaching them to be evil is the problem.
The Ismailis seem alright.
You know, I don’t care if Islam remains “non-West friendly.” How Muslims feel about us is their problem. I just want them to keep it in their own countries. Can’t stand the infidel? Stay the frack home.
If only Andrea. The problem is they come here and want to change us and our government encourages and protects that behavior. America is america because of [exceptional] principles held in common. We welcome immigrants that wish to share the American dream. Welcoming those with a dream of destroying us is nucking futs.
I am afraid that we will be reading Akyol’s obituary before too long.
Turkey would be a good example.
No, it wouldn’t. Turkey used to be pretty well a secular state, and the more Islamic it gets the less friendly it gets.
IMHO the best we are ever (at least in less than centuries) to get is neutral, and the only way we’re getting that is for most of the Ummah to be converted into a radioactive desert.
“Turkey would be a good example.”
The jury is still out on that one.
Even Turkey is contending with a jihad-leaning movement aimed at making its state less secular and more theocratic.
Heh. Fletcher and Wodun posted while I was still drafting my comment.
Are reports of the West’s good relations with the Turks accurate?
Critics (and Islamic supremacists) say that the Koran commands Muslims of all generations to war with all the Earth’s infidels until all the infidels have been exterminated or conquered (i.e. agree to pay the jizya). Obviously, this sort of thing isn’t conducive to cordial Islam-West relations. Mustafa Akyol must address this. To make his case, he must be able to demonstrate with honest linguistic analysis (as opposed to the sort of textual sleight-of-hand behind Kelo v. City of New London) that Mohammed’s military commands were issued to his contemporaries and not to future generations.
Apostasy is a key issue in Akyol’s article. I find it interesting that these courts don’t offer the accused the option of paying the jizya, as even the Jihadi-friendly interpretations of the Koran allow.
Maybe was refering to the Atatürk administration, the de-Islam-ifying one. That I could see…
PJM has had some good articles about how things might not be as grim as those on the right would like to believe but still not all unicorn farts like the left seems to think.
No offense, dudes, but if you haven’t kept up with things Turkish since Cal Coolidge was in office, maybe you ought to catch up your reading first. Just sayin’.
Yeah, Turkey is not the example I would choose. I’d say Jordan first if narrowly focused on Islamic Middle Eastern countries. But move outside ME, and there are many Islamic nations that are better than Turkey.
@Dick Eagleson. Coolidge? When it comes to the Muslim world, even if you haven’t kept up since Charlemagne, you haven’t really missed much.
Turkey would be a good example.
If that’s the best example it’s a good reason for outlawing Islam as a non religion. People are people everywhere (which means a distribution of good and bad) and I met a lot of good friendly people in Turkey.
But to equate a friendly turkey with a friendly Islam is flat out wrong.
Istanbul includes Islam as tourism. That’s not Islam. I felt the need to hire a street urchin to provide an element of safety while in the country but was still accosted by an Islamic teenager. Adults selling to tourist are no indication of friendship. It’s just an indication of business the world over because people are still people.
Ken, but isn’t tourism the foundation of Islam? If the merchants serving the pagan tourist trade in Mecca hadn’t cut a deal with Muhammed to keep the tourists coming, one of the pillars of Islam would be missing. If the Umayyads of Damascus hadn’t been cut off from the Mecca/Medina tourist trade, they wouldn’t have invented the idea that Jerusalem was the third holy city in Islam, which was supposedly an evenings ride from Mecca. Thus the legend of a winged horse, the Crusades (because European tourists had been cut off) and a thousand years of bloodshed extending to the present day.
It’s all about the tourists.
Megalomania is the foundation of Islam. Tourism is just free enterprise. The fact that tourism affected the origins of Islam as you well pointed out really has nothing to do with Islam itself.
Hey wackos, come cut my head off. Mohammed was that centuries Charlie Manson. Mohammed was a pervert and has many pervert followers from his time to ours. If they had any honor, they all go off someplace by themselves and honor kill themselves. I hear they have enough explosives.
Before anyone gets their panties in a twist… I’m not referring to Muslims that are not perverts or other good Muslims that protect and honor their families and others. Every baby born has parents. That’s not the problem. Teaching them to be evil is the problem.
The Ismailis seem alright.
You know, I don’t care if Islam remains “non-West friendly.” How Muslims feel about us is their problem. I just want them to keep it in their own countries. Can’t stand the infidel? Stay the frack home.
If only Andrea. The problem is they come here and want to change us and our government encourages and protects that behavior. America is america because of [exceptional] principles held in common. We welcome immigrants that wish to share the American dream. Welcoming those with a dream of destroying us is nucking futs.
I am afraid that we will be reading Akyol’s obituary before too long.