So now people who think that maybe we should live within our means are terrorists and extremists?
I think that they’re trying this gambit now because they’ve finally figured out that “racist” doesn’t work any more — the race card has become the joker.
Jonah Goldberg: To hell with you people:
…president Obama, our national-healer, gives a speech. It was a good speech. Indeed it was one of the first speeches in a long while that got anything like bipartisan support. Civility. New tone. No more martial metaphors. These were the takeaways.
So flashforward to this week. Tom Friedman — who knows a bit about Hezbollah — calls the tea partiers the “Hezbollah faction” of the GOP bent on taking the country on a “suicide mission.” All over the place, conservative Republicans are “hostage takers” and “terrorists,” “terrorists” and “traitors.” They want to “end life as we know it on this planet,” says Nancy Pelosi. They are betraying the Founders, too. Chris Matthews all but signs up for the “Make an Ass of Yourself” contest at the State Fair. Joe Nocera writes today that “the Tea Party Republicans can put aside their suicide vests.” Lord knows what Krugman and Olbermann have said.
Then last night, on the very day Gabby Giffords heroically returns to cast her first vote since that tragic attack seven months ago, the vice president of the United States calls the Republican party a bunch of terrorists.
No one cares. I hate the “if this were Bush” game so we’re in luck. Instead imagine if this was Dick Cheney calling the Progressive Caucus (or whatever they’re called) a “bunch of terrorists” on the day Giffords returned to the Congress. Would the mainstream media notice or care? Would Meet the Press debate whether this raises “troubling questions” about the White House’s sensitivity? Would Andrea Mitchell find some way to blame Sarah Palin for Dick Cheney’s viciousness? Would Keith Olbermann explode like a mouse subjected to the Ramone’s music in Rock and Roll High School? Something inside me hidden away shouts, “Hell yes they would!”
Also, America held hostage: 41% self identify as extremist fringe tea-bagging terrorists.
I don’t think this is going to end well for the statists.
[Update mid afternoon]
Jim Treacher: “‘Waaaaah! Stop being mean to me! You’re a terrorist!!!’ — The adults in the room.”
[Evening update]
More from Treacher: “So we’re terrorists for “holding the country hostage”? Okay, then: For what you’re doing to future generations, you are pedophiles. Own it.”
Somehow, I don’t think that the talking heads are going to pick up that meme any time soon.
[Bumped]
So Thomas. Can you summarize the political strategy here? Are the people who are calling Tea Partiers terrorists morons who actually can’t identify a meaningful, qualitative difference or are they servants of terrorists who are trying dilute the meaning of the word?
Either way they are not doing themselves a lot of good.
Controlling the money is a quite normal way and indeed the most essential way for legislative branches to reign in executive branches and to modify the overgenerous decisions of previous legislatures throughout English and U.S. history. And read up on your Article 1 Section 8. Borrowing is every bit as much a Congressional power as the budget. And it’s a separate power, to be separately exercised. Everybody who understands the law knows this.
In fact Obama and Geitner had five months to adapt their spending to the law of the land by furloughing non-essential employees, selling liquid assets, and a variety of other means. The whole time the debt ceiling was the law of the land that the Constitution obliges them to faithfully execute. Instead of faithfully executing the law, Obama’s Treasury Department whipped up a completely unnecessary and extremely improbable hysteria in which they threatened, at least by strong suggestion, to violate the 14th Amendment by defaulting on the debt. They started a hysteria that spun a partial government shutdown into a threat of default and economic catastrophe.
The Beltway leaped onto Treasury’s mythology, psychologically projecting a small judgment day for their federal employee friends into the End Of the World For Us All. And many gullible Republicans in the Beltway bought it hook, line, and sinker. Neither I, nor other people who worked out the budget number for themselves and honestly reflected on the results, nor the general Treasury investor ever bought into the disaster scenario. But as a result of all but 85 of the members of Congress who favored budget cuts believing the disaster mongering of Obama Treasury, and as a result of the press and pundits who mindlessly parroted it and indeed whipped it up into a preposterous hysteria, the negotiating leverage of those favoring cuts almost entirely vanished. Budget cutters don’t want the End of the World any more than Democrats, and as long as that was believed to be the outcome of failing to make a deal, that deal was destined to be a wash.
“As Senator McCain shows you may still self-identify as a Conservative . . . ”
The key word is “self-identify;” and the key word in that is “self.”
I might self-identify with Brad Pitt, but reality has a different idea.
“Also, notice how he was unable to address any of the analysis of his worldview and went straight back to his Koch brothers/JBS/attacking Sarah Palin talking points.”
As I’ve written here before, although he seems to want to “self-identify” (to use his terminology) as some kind of independent-minded RINO or something, he’s pretty much a parrot of talking- points straight from Hive Central.
Joe Triscari,
The problem is in the REAL WORLD there is NO evidence that Vice-President referred to the Tea Party as terrorists.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20086574-503544.html
[[[Vice President Joe Biden tells CBS News that published reports that he compared Tea Party-linked lawmakers to “terrorists” during a closed-door meeting Monday are “absolutely not true.”
“I did not use the terrorism word,” Biden told CBS Evening News anchor and managing editor Scott Pelley. ]]]
So what is there to analyze? Other then the Tea Party spreading more false information to stir up their followers? And Tea Party bloggers echoing it around the web…
Biden said it, Matula believes it, that settles it!
The problem is in the REAL WORLD there is NO evidence that Vice-President referred to the Tea Party as terrorists.
That is only a problem for people unfamiliar with the meaning of the word “evidence.” In the REAL REAL WORLD there are several people who say that he said it. The fact that he denies it is evidence against it, but not very good evidence, considering the source. But it doesn’t erase the existing evidence.
Don’t give up your day job to be a lawyer, judge or juror.
Thomas I think Biden did make the comparison and the press is now in a frenzied attempt to obscure the fact since it makes it hard to talk about civility without sounding ridiculous but..
I suppose that we can all agree that someone who did make the comparison is either a dimwit who is incapable of finding a distinction (and maybe should try a slightly simpler cognitive challenge like discriminating circles and squares) or someone trying to assist real terrorists by minimizing the enormity of the evil of terrorism.
In charity, I’m going with the explanation that people who make the comparison of terrorist to Tea Party are imbeciles.
All this talk about JBS had me look into Ike. Damn you Thomas, now I know Ike not only helped communism but expanded the new deal as well. I really, really didn’t want to know that about Ike.
What about JBS? From Wikipedia: The society upholds an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution, which it identifies with Christian principles. It seeks to limit the powers of government and opposes wealth redistribution, economic interventionism. It opposes collectivism and Totalitarianism, particularly communism, but also socialism and fascism. In a 1983 edition of Crossfire, Congressman Larry McDonald (D-Georgia), then its newly appointed president, characterized the society as belonging to the Old Right rather than the New Right.
So what’s old vs new right? Real conservatives vs. RINOs!!!
Is this just another case of the left smearing and the rest of us assuming. Damn you Thomas. I was fine with being ignorant. I have to say… This puts you Thomas, in a much more evil light. I really try to regard our disagreements as iron sharpening iron, but now I’m not so sure.
Regarding Sarahs movie. Nobody expects a documentary to do much. I did go and people were standing up, clapping and cheering. It also made a mockery of those mocking Sarah since her accomplishment are public record… as well as all the baseless assaults on her character. I don’t agree with everything about Sarah politically. But we need her now. Eight years would not be enough. I’m going to start drafting Todd for an additional eight years. We’ve got to dismantle this whole buy votes with tax money crony capitalism which is a disease too evil to believe.
In the REAL WORLD, people ALWAYS honest about their misbehavior!
In the REAL WORLD, the sky is green!
Yeah? Which planet? …and what time of day?
Did I miss it. Has there been “the invention of lying?”
Rand,
Actually it’s a classic example of different folks claiming different things. There is no objective proof like a recording/video. So it’s question of who do you believe?
Also don’t forget there are also motives involved, political and financial, given how Sarah Palin and Rep. Michelle Bachmann are using it for fund raising.
Ken,
I find it interesting you see wikipedia as a credible source. But that would explain a lot about the Tea Party faithful.
So it’s question of who do you believe?
Does anyone believe Matula?
Actually it’s a classic example of different folks claiming different things.
No, it’s a classic example of your inability to deploy logic. You claimed there is no evidence that Joe Biden called Tea Partiers terrorists. That is nonsense.
I find it interesting you see wikipedia as a credible source.
And we find it interesting that you see Joe Biden as a credible source.
@Curt: Heh. without seeing how the conservative numbers are broken down, Rand’s point is meaningless – quelle surprise there.
As it stands, looks increasingly like the conservative movement will be fracturing as actual conservatives want to distance themselves from the radicals who’ve taken over. David Frum seems to be doing a good job around that and I never thought I’d find myself agreeing with him.
Once the economy has been driven off the cliff by this barking mad austerity nonsense that’s killing the UK economy, we might be able to start fixing things. But I’m not convinced at the moment.
Once the economy has been driven off the cliff by this barking mad austerity nonsense that’s killing the UK economy, we might be able to start fixing things. But I’m not convinced at the moment.
Austerity now or slavery for your children. Choose now. If you choose not to live within your means, you better learn to speak Mandarin.
Rand,
I understand you ability to be logical is limited by your dislike of this Administration. But this is a case where you look at motive.
The Tea Party has both political and financial motive to claim Vice-President call them terrorists. It just what they need to go into their victim act so the faithful will give them more money.
But incentive does Vice-President Biden have? If anything claiming would probably rise his stature among the left and donations. So the odds are high he is telling the truth.
As with everything Tea Party it’s easy, just follow the money.
Just to be clear, and ignoring your obfuscation, are you standing by your insane claim that “there is NO evidence that Vice-President referred to the Tea Party as terrorists”?
Rand,
There is no physical evidence (i.e. recording, transcript, etc.).
Its merely eye witness evidence, just as with UFOs and Bigfoot. No, wait, there are photos folk claim are UFOs and Bigfoot, so its not even up to that level of evidence 🙂
But then given the view most Tea Party supporters have about science, eye witness evidence, and your beliefs, are probably all folks like you need.
Ed,
I recall folks saying the same thing years ago about both the national debt and Japan. And neither prediction turned out to be true.
BTW a different view of China’s economic future.
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/china-economic-beast-bubble-waiting-pop-134319099.html
China: Economic Beast or Bubble Waiting to Pop?
By Matt Nesto | Breakout – Mon, May 16, 2011 9:43 AM EDT
[[[Vitaliy Katsenelson, CIO of Investment Management Associates, says simply that “China could be the biggest bubble of the century.” Take commercial real estate construction. He notes the 1,500-store South China Mall that opened in 2005 and now sits empty, and purpose-built cities for 1.5 million that resemble ghost towns. He distrusts their economic data and frets about China having too much cement and steel and nearly everything else — except food and natural resources. Political unrest is inevitable, he says.]]]
Its merely eye witness evidence, just as with UFOs and Bigfoot.
People are convicted beyond a shadow of a doubt every day on eyewitness evidence. Evidence is evidence. I’m amazed that even when called out on your nonsense you double down on it.
Rand,
That is the same senseless argument the UFO believers make. But as anyone who has been involved in law enforcement knows that is a myth, at least in the U.S. In almost all cases there is physical evidence to support the eye witness.
That is the same senseless argument the UFO believers make.
They also laughed at Bozo the Clown. And Tom Matula.
In Matula’s world, nothing before the invention of electronic recording devices actually existed. That would put the creation of the actual world at sometime in the 19th century (when photography was invented).
Andrea,
You do know that transcripts are written documents, not electronic one.
Rand,
Actually it’s the Tea Party folks are starting to laugh at. Did you catch the video of Gov. Christie calling their views on Muslims nuts?
Does anyone in this thread that should be dead doubt that the esteemed Vice President Joseph Robinette “Joe” Biden, Jr. would ever make a gaffe?
Considering Don’t F with Joe Biden’s propensity for gaffes and the talking point talking points being circulated by the left, it is entirely likely that Biden did call the Tea Party terrorists. He was just doing what all the other democrats were doing.
No, but Matula is pretending to do so because he needs ammo for his fight against The Great Satan.
“You do know that transcripts are written documents, not electronic one.”
I know what a transcript is, but I figured you didn’t count writing stuff down as proof, since a lot of people wrote what Biden said on their websites and you called them liars.
Andera,
Actually it’s clear you don’t know what a transcript is. Its writing down what is said word for word at the time it’s said. It’s not writing what you think was said hours later.
I understand you ability to be logical is limited by your dislike of this Administration.
OK, this doesn’t make any sense at all. Rand has been a big supporter of Obama on space policy.
It is possible for two people to be completely logical and objective and yet disagree, if they start from different premises. Unfortunately much of the Left has unwittingly taken on the Communist Manifesto as axiomatic. To the Tea Party (in the US at least) the US Constitution is taken as axiomatic.
Either you believe the ideas expressed in the US Constitution to be true or you don’t. Check your premises.
Ed,
It’s false to claim you if you don’t support the TP/JBS you don’t you support the Constitution. It simply says you disagree with the TP/JBS’ narrow and non-mainstream view of the Constitution.
Okay, I admit it. You’ve worn me down, Matula! I’m a card-carrying (we have cards) member of the John Birch Society. In fact, I’m in the (sub-super-sekret) Ministry of Propaganda wing of the Birchers. I made this whole thing possible! I seeded Joe Biden’s decaf latte with hallucinogens to discredit him because he was on to us — he’d uncovered the alliance between the Birchers and the Tea Party to take over the United States Government. We were planning to install our puppet, Sarah Palin, as head Dictatress For Life. By the way, as your people had long suspected, Sarah Palin isn’t a real woman — she’s a cyborg war machine. Only not all the components to get her lasers fully operational have been perfected on our moonbase. We’re waiting for some heavy metals from China. But as soon as we get them, we’ll be ready to march on Washington with Sarah Palin-borg at the head of a million-cyborg army! Nothing will be able to with stand us! Nothing! Ha!
We wanted to do this the nice way: by infiltrating and gradually but peacefully taking over the operations of government. But thanks to you and your deadly intellect, we’ve had to go to plan B: retreat to our secret mountain lairs in certain remote dormant volcanoes, the invisible space station orbiting Venus, the guard post of the sleeping space fleet orbitting the second moon of Neptune, the void cocoons holding the nascent cyborg space armies, and of course our base on the dark side of the Moon. There we will rest, renew, and plan. And then we will invade. Oh yes. Then you will rue the day you chose coffee (spit) over Tea! Bwaha! Bwahaha! Bwahahahahaah!
It simply says you disagree with the TP/JBS’ narrow and non-mainstream view of the Constitution.
OK, good, this is a starting point for discussion. How is the Tea Party view of the 10th Amendment or the Commerce Clause at odds with a reasonable-person interpretation of the Constitution? And how does one fit something like TARP or Obamacare or even NASA fit into that reasonable-person interpretation?
The Supreme Court and Civil War settled the meaning of the 10th Amendment.
TARP, which was under President Bush comes under Article 8, General Welfare. And if think it doesn’t, then take it to the Supreme Court whose function it is to rule on what the Constitution means.
As I argued under a thread a while back NASA fits under General Welfare and Common Security, but if you wish to petition the Supreme Court on it feel free to do so. It’s your constitutional right 🙂
Andrea,
I guess the LGM got to you with their “truth ray” 🙂
I don’t have standing to petition the SC for anything, Thomas – I’m Canadian. However, one doesn’t need to be a Supreme Court justice to have basic reading and comprehension skills. A government that can find a nebulous excuse (“emanations from penumbras”?) to do anything it pleases is a government unbound by law.
The US government just lost its AAA rating at one credit rating agency, and if another agency downgrades the rating then you’re going to see huge cuts in all areas not explicitly required by the constitution. If the best you can do is to simply brush off the Tea Party as a fringe, you’re in for a very rude awakening.
Ed,
If you read the press release you will see it’s the Tea Party making an issue of raising the debt and refusal to raise taxes that were factors in the S & P decision. Yes, it’s a fringe group but one which has the potential to do great harm to the nation with their narrow view of history and fundamentalist view of the Constitution. That is what is scaring S & P.
Of course on the other hand S & P reputation may also be at stake given their record in the meltdown in 2008.
Read for comprehension, Thomas. And, also try listening to what the reps from S&P have been saying for months. You’ve got it exactly backwards. Sheesh.