Well, Barack Obama and Harry Reid got what they wanted. I hope it’s as awful politically for them as they hope it’s good.
56 thoughts on “The “Government Shutdown””
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Well, Barack Obama and Harry Reid got what they wanted. I hope it’s as awful politically for them as they hope it’s good.
Comments are closed.
They wouldn’t even accept putting Congress on Obamacare. Reid won’t even conference with the House. This is how bad Democrats want this shutdown.
You have been misinformed. The Senate voted several times for a clean continuing resolution — with GOP-chosen spending levels! — to keep the government open. It’s Boehner who won’t even let the House vote on a clean CR, for fear of losing his speakership.
They wouldn’t even accept putting Congress on Obamacare
1) Even if that was true, what does it have to do with the shutdown?
2) It isn’t true. What they stripped (along with various other anti-Obamacare measures that the House keeps glomming onto the CR) was a job benefit cut for Congress and Congressional staff. Employees at IBM, Lockheed, Halliburton, and every other big company in America still get employer-provided health benefits; why should Congressional employees lose theirs?
Reid won’t even conference with the House.
Reid has been asking for a budget conference for six months. It’s ridiculous for the House to demand one only now that the government has shut down. And there’s nothing to conference about. The Senate has passed a continuing resolution, with spending levels set by the House. All Boehner has to do to end the shutdown is let the House vote on it.
Jim,
How dare you present facts to Rand! You are wasting your time. Clearly Rand is a graduate of the Fox School of Journalism 🙂
Obama and Reid keep repeating that they won’t negotiate, but Baghdad Jim insists it’s the GOP that is at fault. I’m sure he thinks that narrative is working like it did in 1995.
And Baghdad Bob thought Saddam Hussein was winning the war back in ’03.
Obama and Reid keep repeating that they won’t negotiate
They’ve already capitulated to GOP spending levels, so there’s nothing relevant left for them to negotiate.
Jim insists it’s the GOP that is at fault
The Senate has passed a CR. It would pass the House too, and Obama would sign it, if only Boehner would bring it up for a vote. How could it not be the GOP’s fault?
he thinks that narrative is working like it did in 1995
I’m not the only one.
“They’ve already capitulated to GOP spending levels, so there’s nothing relevant left for them to negotiate.”
Silly…if there are differences then they can be negotiated.
There are differences.
There’s room for negotiation.
But the Dems refuse to negotiate.
There are differences.
Not on the question before them, which is whether to continue funding the government at the levels chosen by the House GOP.
There are other, unrelated differences between the two parties, but none that stand in the way of a continuing resolution. So why won’t Boehner let the House vote on a clean CR?
>> There are differences.
> Not on the question before them, which is whether to continue funding the government at the levels chosen by the House GOP.
You’ve been well trained. You are ignoring the glaring difference as if it didn’t exist. But as you well know that’s not the only difference.
Even Obama acknowledges the difference. Even Reid.
Your nickname of “Baghdad Jim” is well earned.
You are ignoring the glaring difference as if it didn’t exist.
There is no difference on continuing resolution funding. There are a million other differences, but why do they need to be resolved in order to pass something — the CR — that both sides support?
McGehee,
Why should President Obama and Senator Reid when they spent the last year begging the GOP to negotiate? But it seems the GOP is only willing to negotiate when they are holding a “gun” on you. So much for the Tea Party believing in “democracy”.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/budget-conference-republicans_n_4020621.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
Michael McAuliff
mike.mcauliff@huffingtonpost.com
Republicans Spent Year Blocking Budget Conference (VIDEO)
Posted: 10/01/2013 1:00 am EDT | Updated: 10/01/2013 8:36 am EDT
[[[But with the clock expiring at midnight Monday, and federal officials starting to shut down all non-essential government functions, the House resorted to seeking a conference committee to pass a spending bill, or “continuing resolution” that runs only through mid-November or mid-December
Senate Democrats called that negotiating at gunpoint.]]]
They wouldn’t even accept putting Congress on Obamacare
Here’s a great Politico story on Boehner’s secret efforts to preserve Congressional health benefits. His public efforts to end them are strictly for show. At one point Boehner floated sneaking a provision into an unrelated law:
“When I was in the state legislature, we used to stick things in [bills] and no one would notice.”
Hmm… Between the Sequester and the ShutNado (assuming the first isn’t a subset of the second), how much is spending cut? Is it cut below revenues, thereby making the debt ceiling talks moot?
As a Tea Party supporter I’ll say that forcing the government to live within its means is a good thing.
Darkstar,
Actually its effect will probably be the reverse. A major portion of the federal budget are the interest payments on the national debt. If the shutdown results in the U.S. credit rating being reduced further the cost of interest will go up drastically as the debt is rolled over. Remember, unlike a mortgage, the national debt is in the form of mostly short term debt instruments that a constantly rolled over. This is how the free market controls government borrowing and signals it is borrowing too much. By Congress over riding the invisible hand of the market they create the possibility of much higher costs of interest making the deficit worst.
Now add to that the impact on the national GDP as government furloughs and contract suspensions kick in (remember, government employees and contracts pay taxes) and you will also see government revenues drop, not just federal revenues, but the revenues of state and local governments as well. I have seen estimates that a month long shutdown will reduce the GDP by as much as .7 to 1 percent which means a decline in tax revenues for everyone.
So no, this won’t help the federal deficit better, it will make it worst as well as the deficits of a number of state and local governments.
how much is spending cut
It isn’t, it’s increased. The last shutdown cost the Treasury $2 billion. Shutting down the government is a way to pile up debt more quickly.
Jim,
Yes, here is an estimated daily cost for the economy.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/government-shutdown-cost_n_4022981.html?utm_hp_ref=business
The Government Shutdown Could Cost $300 Million Per Day
The Huffington Post
By Jillian Berman
Posted: 10/01/2013 11:02 am EDT
Updated: 10/01/2013 11:16 am EDT
But all bets are off if the GOP crashes the economy as a result of the shutdown. Remember that last time the GOP did so in the 1990’s we were in a boom as was Europe, not climbing out of a recession.
The Government Shutdown Could Cost $300 Million Per Day
The US federal government not shutdown costs $9.5 Billion per day.
The US federal government not shutdown costs $9.5 Billion per day.
That’s a fun fact. But just to be clear, the $300M/day mentioned above is on top of regular spending, i.e. $9.5B/day.
Well then, the debt limit will be reached sooner. Obama and Reid might want to head off both a shutdown and default by meeting with the House leaders. Really, is it too much to ask that Congress live under the same laws as the rest of the country? Can’t Congressional staffers live under ACA like all other civil servants and citizens of the country?
Obama and Reid might want to head off both a shutdown and default by meeting with the House leaders.
“Nice economy you have there, wouldn’t want anything terrible to happen to it.”
Can’t Congressional staffers live under ACA like all other civil servants and citizens of the country?
They already do! Other civil servants and citizens who get insurance from their employers can continue to do so; why shouldn’t Congressional staffers be able to?
For once I find myself agreeing with Jim (about the Senate Democrats OK with a “clean CR” that keeps the Sequester).
The President is slouching towards a self-brought-upon meltdown. His Secretary of State, smart man of history that he is, invokes the spectre of Chamberlain at Munich and then, guess what, gets off a plane waving a piece of paper proclaiming peace in our time based on a dodgy promise from a tyrant. You know the Exchanges won’t work from an IT perspective (a few bugs that can be worked out, remind me Jim about your understanding of Missile Defense software) unless they “pull out all of the safeties” on any kind of verification. Gun Control anyone? Immigration Reform (OK, that one is not quite dead yet).
Just give the President a clean Continuing Resolution — there is no Deal, there is no Grand Bargain, and yes, the optimal strategy is indeed to kick-the-can-down-the-road and muddle through. But noooooooo! First our die hard freedom-loving TEA Party/Libertarian Patriots scared off the working classes (Thank you Governors Walker, Kasich, and Scott along with former Governor Romney blabbing about the unjust Auto Bailout . . . in Ohio! Thank you for helping reelect Mr. Obama as President. And y’all, tell me I am wrong and that what the Right/TEA/Conservative Blogosphere is for, yeah, yeah, double-digit trillion debt, and even Obamacare are the existential threats of our day and no one was scared and only the stoopid voted for Mr. Obama, but last I checked Mr. Obama is still President).
Yes, Mr. Obama is President, and headed nowhere fast, with rot setting in to his ill-begotten empire, fall-of-Michael-Corleone style. But we have to call attention to ourselves, don’t we, we have to give Mr. Obama his renewed Moment in the Sun, we can’t just let whatever he is about collapse?
Paul,
You are right on target. The Tea Party by its shut down insanity may have well ensured President Obama has a Democratic run House of Representatives, following 2014. Be afraid, be very afraid…
But the Sequester is not GOP spending limits, as Jim suggested. Rather, Sequester is the across the board spending cut except for entitlements that Obama wanted, then later blamed the GOP.
The line is open, call when someone is willing to negotiate.
The line is open, call when someone is willing to negotiate.
The CR — with House-set spending limits — has passed the Senate, the House can vote on it at any time.
Three CRs — with House-set spending limits — has passed the House, the Senate can vote on any of them at any time.
The Senate has already voted on those CRs! It voted to strip the extraneous Obamacare provisions, and it voted to pass the resulting clean CRs. It’s only the House that has failed to vote on bills that would keep the government open.
What if there is a shutdown and nobody cares?
This is a really dangerous game for the Dem’s as it shows people how much excess unnecessary government there actually is…
Also I get the impression that the “essential” list has been growing, such that non-escential is now only 36%… leaving 64% untouched.
Paul,
Actually its the GOP that has everything to lose in the next election. The folks who will believe its the Democrats fault are the minority that will vote Republican, or like Rand, Libertarian, no matter what.
Remember, elections are decided by the moderates, not the extremists.
Voters already know that National Parks, NOAA research vessels, CDC disease tracking and nutritional assistance for pregnant women aren’t essential. The shutdown is a reminder that they are good things nonetheless.
Ya, turning off websites like NASA.gov and leaving a snarky political statememt in its place might well backfire. They could just not post any updates but they flipped the switch off and I guarantee the servers are still on. Obama is going out of his way to stick his finger in the eye of the public.
What is surprising is so many government workers are playing along. We need less partisan government workers doing their party’s dirty work.
Wodun,
What do you think a shutdown is? You turn the lights out , put the close sign on the door and go home until you are called back to work.
I certainly hope that if/when the furloughed employees are re-imbursed for the hours they are not allowed to work, that they will be forced to work extra hours so as to actually earn that pay.
Gregg,
And you wonder why the government workers are supporting the Democrats? Maybe its because they treat them with respect versus the Tea Party Republicans who treat them like the sweat shop workers they got rich on.
Lincoln, addressing the House GOP on the shutdown and debt ceiling breach:
Lincoln, addressing the House GOP on the shutdown and debt ceiling breach
Are you holding a seance? Or are you remarking about the 8 times the Democrat controlled House shutdown the government under Ronald Reagan?
“Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!”
Damn you Jim and your utter lack of civility. Are you trying to get crazy people like Matula to gun down Republicans in the streets? It’s bad enough Democrats put their opponents in crosshairs in ad campaigns. Now careless people like Jim are trying to incite people to murder.
Rand, why do you allow these uncivil commenters on your blog? You should shut them down until they learn to be civilized rather than the savages they are!
Are you holding a seance?
Google is your friend — it’s an excerpt from Lincoln’s Cooper Union speech, given at another time in U.S. history when one faction threatened disaster if its demands weren’t met, and then blamed the disaster on the targets of the extortion. Fortunately the stakes aren’t as high this time, but the geography is similar and the negotiation dynamic is identical.
If Rand wanted to clean up his blog he would do what respectable sites do and require trolls like you to register and use your real name instead of letting you slander folks without taking responsibility for it. Someday its going to get him sued.
But then that is the Tea Party way, to not take responsibility for their actions.
If Rand wanted to clean up his blog he would do what respectable sites do and require trolls like you to register and use your real name instead of letting you slander folks without taking responsibility for it. Someday its going to get him sued.
It might get him sued. But the person bringing the lawsuit probably should get competent legal council first before attempting such a move since blog owners aren’t responsible for the comments of others. It’s also worth noting that if Rand were to do as you suggest, then he might actually take on legal liability for what is said in the comments section. After all, if I were to say anonymously say something libelous about you now, it’s not Rand’s responsibility. But if he demonstrates that he works to clean up his blog from such things, then legal expectations have risen.
As to Leland’s words, even if they were truly libelous against Jim, there’s no identifiable target. There are plenty of “Jims” in the world, and Jim might not have shared even a scrap of his true life or name with us. Other people could sneak in as “Jim” too. Do they suddenly get libeled as a result?
There’s no harm to Jim from Leland’s words because they will never find the mark. Now, you and I as targets might be different stories since we post under our true names, but even then, we brought it onto ourselves by entering the lions’ den.
Karl,
I take it you didn’t see the comment about me in Leland’s post.
Also as courts understand blogs better they are starting to recognize that their owners need to take on some responsibilities just as with print media sites. And let’s not forget the view of some Tea Party politicians on bloggers.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/lindsey-graham-isn-t-sure-if-bloggers-deserve-first-amendment-protection-20130605
Lindsey Graham Isn’t Sure If Bloggers Deserve ‘First Amendment Protection’
“Debt limit row, government shutdown unlikely to hit U.S. rating: Moody’s”
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/24/us-usa-debt-moodys-idUSBRE98N0KW20130924
Certain comments here seem to be FUD. If you have facts which contradict this Reuters article, please post links.
“The U.S. Treasury bond is the benchmark of the world’s financial market,” Hess said. “To default on that would create a global financial problem.”
Ten year bond up 1.11% at the time of this posting. Dow is up a 1/3rd of a point and NASDAQ nearly up a full point. Markets overseas rallied as the US government shutdown.
Not surprising:
Yeah, its a disaster alright.
DJIA is up 35 points.
NASDAQ is up 34 points.
Gold is down 2.72%.
Darn. 😉
Not surprising
Ah, Jim, I see the spin changed. So why don’t you share the stock market’s lack of concern?
Darkstar,
This is the key statement in the article.
[[Moody’s also expects the United States to keep paying interest on Treasuries in the event of a debt ceiling standoff, Hess added.’]]]
Also note Moody’s is only one agency, one with a history of responsibility and so its avoiding comments that may panic the market as the U.S. goes into uncharted waters. If you studied history you would know similar folks in authority tried to clam the markets in 1929 by calling the crash a correction and a good time to buy stocks 🙂
He who capitulates first…wins.
If Obama gives in and gives the republicans a one year Obamacare delay, the he avoids the coming train wreck until just before the mid-terms and can blame everything on the republicans. One year might be enough to fix the implementation problems, and if not at least they get one year. But this will only happen if the democrats recognise the coming problems, which I doubt because I think they are in total denial.
If the republicans give in, then no one can blame the Obamacare wreck on them. They tried to stop it and forced the democrats to publically own it. But this only works if they mercilessly hammer the democrats on every single failure, which they clearly seem incapable of doing.
Mind you, I don’t expect it to be a wreck simply due to any general aversion to socialize medicine. A good enough socialized medicine program can clearly “work”, at least to a first approximation. There are plentiful examples around the world. Obamacare, however, is neither a free market nor a socialized system. It is an unworkable Frankenstein monstrocity filled with unintended consequences. Futhermore, no one is really ready to implement it right now. Train wreck.
he avoids the coming train wreck
It’s too late — people are signing up as I type this. Plans are paid for. Reversing course now would be more of a mess than pushing through.
It’s too late — people are signing up as I type this.
Or not:
“If I were signing up for myself, this is where my patience would be exhausted”
Reversing course now would be more of a mess than pushing through.
And so the Captain of the Titanic ordered forward engines causing water to push into damaged ship at a rate exceeding the capability of the pumps.
Whoever’s at fault (assuming the shutdown is a bad thing (and trust Moby Mabula to take the Hive party-line on this, as he invariably does), the MSM is, as I think Charles Krauthammer phrased it, virtually the public-relations arm of the DNC; so President Alinsky, once again, will have an Emmanuel Goldstein to attack. Which he needs. If he tried to present a logical, fact-based, coherent argument for his statism, he’d end up sounding like Admiral Gerrib. Yup, that lame.
Well, President A
Bilwick thanks again for illustrating how the Tea Party has lost what little grip it has on reality. And why negotiating with the Republicans is a waste of time. They want the government shut down and they want to crash the economy as they think it will result in some kind of libertarian utopia afterward. You don’t negotiate with fanatics, you simple let them self-destruct when their followers realize they lost all touch with reality and abandon them.
And its already happening. The count is up to 12 for the number of Republicans who place their oath to the Constitution and love for America before fearing what the Tea Party thugs will do to them for breaking ranks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/house-republicans-clean-cr_n_4024755.html
Jennifer Bendery
jen.bendery@huffingtonpost.com
Here’s A Tally Of Which House Republicans Are Ready To Fund The Government, No Strings Attached
Posted: 10/01/2013 4:26 pm EDT
Updated: 10/01/2013 6:49 pm EDT
Yes, I expect more true patriots will emerge to say No to the false patriots of the Tea Party.
The first place to go when you want to know the TP position on anything is HuffingtonPost.
Wodun,
It is if you want to know the truth 🙂
BTW the number of Republican patriots is now up to 15.
Moby’s grip on reality is so great that apparently he thinks that if more we had more Republicans who were as lukewarm in their devotion to liberty and as willing to cave in to the Hive as he is, only good things would happen! Keep moving–No Road to Serfdom here!
They used to call them “Tories;” maybe future generations, when they study how the Republic was lost, and Obama was able to turn the USA into Venezuela del Norte, will call them “Matulas.” I would think Moby would like that.
Today on the local liberal news media the discussion was all about how the Republicans are damaging themselves by allowing the government shutdown to occur. I love how liberals have such concern for the Republican party. Perhaps they should have a little more concern for their own party as it appears the government shutdown, as we say in the software industry, may be perceived by the public as a feature, not a bug.
So, is createing barrycades around parks mandatory spending or MANDATORY spending? I guess its mandatory in the sense that Obama ordered it but it isn’t mandatory in the sense that it is law.
And how is it that Obama has this much control and influence over government departments and workers in this case but not when IRS, EPA, DOJ, and other agencies are acting as an arm of the Democrat party?
So, is createing barrycades around parks mandatory spending or MANDATORY spending?
Bill Clinton didn’t take these actions in 1995, so I’ll put this action down as Grandstanding. That and how fast they were erected should tell you who really wanted this shutdown.