With the COVID-19 lockdown, I decided to waste time on the movie. I had read all the spoilers ahead of time. I follow Star Wars not as a movie franchise, but as an example of the destruction of a brand. From that perspective, RoS is a fitting conclusion to the destruction.
Vader is no longer the one to bring balance to the force (prequels) and vanquish the emperor (original series). The original heroes fought for a short lived victory that resulted in the destruction of the New Republic in a matter of seconds. The only living Skywalker is actually a Palpatine.
The first movie of the sequels destroyed decades of literary work that expanded the Star Wars universe. Unlike Marvel which mined and continues to mine the existing lore into blockbuster films; Star Wars decided to jettison that lore and build something new. Long time fans lost hope of seeing the visualization of well sold books. The second movie introduced new physics that raised questions about both warfare strategy and how the force actually works. The third movie simply created a new universe and thus a new brand. A new brand that has considerably less value than the old brand.
As for Lileks; it was made clear by Rian Johnson that even if JJ Abrams outlined the full trilogy (and that’s debatable); Kathleen Kennedy gave him carte blanch to jettison the outline and “let the past die; kill it if you have to”.
I don’t know if we are asking the right questions.
Star Wars is “pretend”, it is science fiction, yes, but not Ringworld, the Moon is a Harsh Mistress or The Foundation level of serious science fiction. So they retcon everything in sight, what does it matter?
Star Wars is popular culture, and what makes something part of culture, popular or otherwise, is shared experience — something we have in common that we can talk about and use as a metaphor for life experience.
Darth Vader is the Ur movie villain. He not only fights the good guys, he is a piece of work in his dealings even with the bad guys on his own side. Not with disposable henchmen but with the Empire’s high-ranking officers. “I find your lack of faith, disturbing” and “You have failed me for the last, time.”
A friend asks, “How is that new manager in your office?” “Darth Vader.” “Oh.” Darth Vader. Nothing more needs to be said.
The real question is, are there any memorable characters in the new movies? Are they anything, even remotely, like anyone we know? Are we going to be quoting lines from those movies? Have enough people even seen them that if someone quotes a line, we have the vaguest clue as to what they are talking about?
Well I quoted one line, and I think that’s the only line other than “they fly now”.
I think it is possible, if you knew nothing of the original movies; to maybe enjoy Rise of Skywalker. Except, it still has the fast pacing at the beginning. The annoying habit of suggesting someone died only to be shown alive 2 minutes later. And the final space battle scene with horses and the notion that large spacecraft can’t navigate to orbit because, “they don’t know which way is up”. Oh look, a third line.
“Darth Vader is the Ur movie villain.”
Darth Vader did nothing wrong.
Sure, he took some harsh measures to protect the universe from #rebellion, but they were necessary measures against a mob of SJWs who wrecked the galaxy after only a couple of decades of being in control.
Harsh… but fair.
Harsh but fair, say, like Joe Stalin? Choking his own generals and admirals?
A few strangled generals vs handing the galaxy over to a mob of SJWs who’ll wreck it? I think that’s an easy trade-off to make.
This was a franchise aimed mostly at boys. A lot of girls liked it as well, but it was boys who went to the movies 10+ times and bought billions in toys. Disney purchased the brand and gave it to an activist feminist who put together an all women “story group” and was quoted as saying that she didn’t owe anything to the previous fans. This isn’t a big surprise as Disney in general caters mainly to the “Princess” market.
SWs became a franchise now aimed mainly at girls (female “Mary Sue” protagonist – trashing the old male characters – bad boy love interest and space horses) but some boys like it. Subsequently, Disney still hasn’t made back the SWs 4 billion price tag and the SW merchandising cratered immediately – being a large factor in “Toys R Us” closing forever. But other than that it’s in great shape.
Are you telling me that Bob Iger Force-choked Toys R Us?
Cool!
“The original heroes fought for a short lived victory that resulted in the destruction of the New Republic in a matter of seconds. ”
FWIW, that happened in the original Before Disney timeline, too, more or less.
From the comments: I checked out of Star Wars about half way through the third movie–of the original three.
Yep. Ewoks. Though to be fair I think the tarzan yell occurred well past the half way point.
I saw the first Star Wars movie. I thought it was really good.
I saw the second Start Wars move. I thought it was sort of ok.
I saw the third Star Wars movie. At the end I had to ask myself why I wasted my money and time on such garbage.
I have not seen a Star Wars movie since. Judging from the occasional comment I have read over the years I seem to have made a wise choice.
..
The Last Star Wars Movie
We can only hope.
There should have only been one. I realize that would lose us Empire, but that’s where things started to fall apart.
Even if you figure “a thousand generations” of Jedi protecting the Republic is hyperbole, you’d need to have an “Old Republic” lasting for a while. Followed by the Empire – which didn’t have the longevity of Yugoslavia.
I watched the Star Trek original series because it was the 60s, I was in high school, and there was little else on TV. I watch the cartoon series in the 70s with my son, who was a little boy. A few samples of what came later made me decide to give it up.
It was the same with Star Wars. I watched the first movie with my son, still a little boy, and we enjoyed the then very good special effects. I watched the next two movies, and then my son was grown up and that was that.
Nobody was ever going to make any of my books into movies, and that has always informed my level of interest in SF/F. Yes, I did watch Game of Thrones, and even read the books. No, they’re not very good, by my lights, but the TV show did have naked women…
“Producer: Okay, what have you got for us?
Writer One: We have a Luke Skywalker except she’s a she.
Great! What’s her backstory?
(writers look at each other) It’s a mystery. We really don’t know anything about her.”
Someone’s been cribbing from the Pitch Meeting youtube guy!
Many of the Youtube critiques of Disney Star Wars are spot on and devastating, and lead right into similar criticisms of new Star Trek, the death of Doctor Who as a franchise, the comic industry which might not survive wokeness and Covid, and Hollywood woke culture.
I’ve been watching quite a lot of these critics, and there are plenty I’d recommend for their deep analysis or pure entertainment value. Many were associated with #TheFandomMenace hashtag, and that’s how some got started. Off the top of my head, going off the ones I watched yesterday are:
Nerdrotic (Gary Beakler in San Francisco)
Mr-H (a Southerner who runs Geeks and Gamers)
That Star Wars Girl (Anna – who just got her first comic-book cover art published)
HeelVsBabyFace (Az, a British follower of the industry)
Mauler (a Brit with very in depth reviews)
Doomcock (who wears a mask)
CriticalDrinker (A Scot who produces hilarious reviews with a brogue and a slur).
Script Doctor (A Hollywood script writer)
It’s a fun community, and their rants are epic. Their output is way more entertaining than what Hollywood is producing. But they’re also fair, and would love to have good content to review. They’re huge fans of Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, and countless other franchises. But they hate bad writing, and they’re fed up with wokeness. Their eye’s roll as they mockingly describe yet another Mary Sue character as “She’s the bestest ever! She’s so powerful and brave!” Yeah. Screw that. I’m sick of it. It’s trite, lazy, boring, and just plain bad writing.
With the COVID-19 lockdown, I decided to waste time on the movie. I had read all the spoilers ahead of time. I follow Star Wars not as a movie franchise, but as an example of the destruction of a brand. From that perspective, RoS is a fitting conclusion to the destruction.
Vader is no longer the one to bring balance to the force (prequels) and vanquish the emperor (original series). The original heroes fought for a short lived victory that resulted in the destruction of the New Republic in a matter of seconds. The only living Skywalker is actually a Palpatine.
The first movie of the sequels destroyed decades of literary work that expanded the Star Wars universe. Unlike Marvel which mined and continues to mine the existing lore into blockbuster films; Star Wars decided to jettison that lore and build something new. Long time fans lost hope of seeing the visualization of well sold books. The second movie introduced new physics that raised questions about both warfare strategy and how the force actually works. The third movie simply created a new universe and thus a new brand. A new brand that has considerably less value than the old brand.
As for Lileks; it was made clear by Rian Johnson that even if JJ Abrams outlined the full trilogy (and that’s debatable); Kathleen Kennedy gave him carte blanch to jettison the outline and “let the past die; kill it if you have to”.
I don’t know if we are asking the right questions.
Star Wars is “pretend”, it is science fiction, yes, but not Ringworld, the Moon is a Harsh Mistress or The Foundation level of serious science fiction. So they retcon everything in sight, what does it matter?
Star Wars is popular culture, and what makes something part of culture, popular or otherwise, is shared experience — something we have in common that we can talk about and use as a metaphor for life experience.
Darth Vader is the Ur movie villain. He not only fights the good guys, he is a piece of work in his dealings even with the bad guys on his own side. Not with disposable henchmen but with the Empire’s high-ranking officers. “I find your lack of faith, disturbing” and “You have failed me for the last, time.”
A friend asks, “How is that new manager in your office?” “Darth Vader.” “Oh.” Darth Vader. Nothing more needs to be said.
The real question is, are there any memorable characters in the new movies? Are they anything, even remotely, like anyone we know? Are we going to be quoting lines from those movies? Have enough people even seen them that if someone quotes a line, we have the vaguest clue as to what they are talking about?
Well I quoted one line, and I think that’s the only line other than “they fly now”.
I think it is possible, if you knew nothing of the original movies; to maybe enjoy Rise of Skywalker. Except, it still has the fast pacing at the beginning. The annoying habit of suggesting someone died only to be shown alive 2 minutes later. And the final space battle scene with horses and the notion that large spacecraft can’t navigate to orbit because, “they don’t know which way is up”. Oh look, a third line.
“Darth Vader is the Ur movie villain.”
Darth Vader did nothing wrong.
Sure, he took some harsh measures to protect the universe from #rebellion, but they were necessary measures against a mob of SJWs who wrecked the galaxy after only a couple of decades of being in control.
Harsh… but fair.
Harsh but fair, say, like Joe Stalin? Choking his own generals and admirals?
A few strangled generals vs handing the galaxy over to a mob of SJWs who’ll wreck it? I think that’s an easy trade-off to make.
This was a franchise aimed mostly at boys. A lot of girls liked it as well, but it was boys who went to the movies 10+ times and bought billions in toys. Disney purchased the brand and gave it to an activist feminist who put together an all women “story group” and was quoted as saying that she didn’t owe anything to the previous fans. This isn’t a big surprise as Disney in general caters mainly to the “Princess” market.
SWs became a franchise now aimed mainly at girls (female “Mary Sue” protagonist – trashing the old male characters – bad boy love interest and space horses) but some boys like it. Subsequently, Disney still hasn’t made back the SWs 4 billion price tag and the SW merchandising cratered immediately – being a large factor in “Toys R Us” closing forever. But other than that it’s in great shape.
Are you telling me that Bob Iger Force-choked Toys R Us?
Cool!
“The original heroes fought for a short lived victory that resulted in the destruction of the New Republic in a matter of seconds. ”
FWIW, that happened in the original Before Disney timeline, too, more or less.
From the comments:
I checked out of Star Wars about half way through the third movie–of the original three.
Yep. Ewoks. Though to be fair I think the tarzan yell occurred well past the half way point.
I saw the first Star Wars movie. I thought it was really good.
I saw the second Start Wars move. I thought it was sort of ok.
I saw the third Star Wars movie. At the end I had to ask myself why I wasted my money and time on such garbage.
I have not seen a Star Wars movie since. Judging from the occasional comment I have read over the years I seem to have made a wise choice.
..
The Last Star Wars Movie
We can only hope.
There should have only been one. I realize that would lose us Empire, but that’s where things started to fall apart.
Even if you figure “a thousand generations” of Jedi protecting the Republic is hyperbole, you’d need to have an “Old Republic” lasting for a while. Followed by the Empire – which didn’t have the longevity of Yugoslavia.
I watched the Star Trek original series because it was the 60s, I was in high school, and there was little else on TV. I watch the cartoon series in the 70s with my son, who was a little boy. A few samples of what came later made me decide to give it up.
It was the same with Star Wars. I watched the first movie with my son, still a little boy, and we enjoyed the then very good special effects. I watched the next two movies, and then my son was grown up and that was that.
Nobody was ever going to make any of my books into movies, and that has always informed my level of interest in SF/F. Yes, I did watch Game of Thrones, and even read the books. No, they’re not very good, by my lights, but the TV show did have naked women…
“Producer: Okay, what have you got for us?
Writer One: We have a Luke Skywalker except she’s a she.
Great! What’s her backstory?
(writers look at each other) It’s a mystery. We really don’t know anything about her.”
Someone’s been cribbing from the Pitch Meeting youtube guy!
Many of the Youtube critiques of Disney Star Wars are spot on and devastating, and lead right into similar criticisms of new Star Trek, the death of Doctor Who as a franchise, the comic industry which might not survive wokeness and Covid, and Hollywood woke culture.
I’ve been watching quite a lot of these critics, and there are plenty I’d recommend for their deep analysis or pure entertainment value. Many were associated with #TheFandomMenace hashtag, and that’s how some got started. Off the top of my head, going off the ones I watched yesterday are:
Nerdrotic (Gary Beakler in San Francisco)
Mr-H (a Southerner who runs Geeks and Gamers)
That Star Wars Girl (Anna – who just got her first comic-book cover art published)
HeelVsBabyFace (Az, a British follower of the industry)
Mauler (a Brit with very in depth reviews)
Doomcock (who wears a mask)
CriticalDrinker (A Scot who produces hilarious reviews with a brogue and a slur).
Script Doctor (A Hollywood script writer)
It’s a fun community, and their rants are epic. Their output is way more entertaining than what Hollywood is producing. But they’re also fair, and would love to have good content to review. They’re huge fans of Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, and countless other franchises. But they hate bad writing, and they’re fed up with wokeness. Their eye’s roll as they mockingly describe yet another Mary Sue character as “She’s the bestest ever! She’s so powerful and brave!” Yeah. Screw that. I’m sick of it. It’s trite, lazy, boring, and just plain bad writing.