9 thoughts on “How Space Can Aid Human Flourishing”
“Now it will be possible for companies to create orbital research labs, their own space stations, for less than $100 million—not pocket change, but well within the budget of a Fortune 500 company.”
But way less complicated to just book a flight and a stay rather than build, maintain and fully utilize a station. This isn’t a company jet that benefits the CEO, so inefficiencies wont be glossed over.
“t’s not a problem for us, but a benefit, if the sons and daughters of Chinese parents become scientists and engineers, because then China will start contributing to human progress in a way comparable to Western nations.”
I don’t think the latter will will happen and that the former is a problem. Let’s not be complacent. Let’s not be gullible. Let’s not forget the concentration camps and involuntary harvesting of human organs. Maybe take some of that Russian blood lust sweeping the country and channel it into not bending over for China?
“They were implementing the ideas of 18th-century liberalism, which were well known in Europe but not widely implemented because the existing power structures prevented it. But we gave it a try in America. ”
Incredibly important point. The issues surrounding creation vs revolution in the context of ideological heredity deserve their own thread. You don’t need a Year Zero if you have voluntary adherents to your new ideology. We can just ignore that the “new” ideology is just Progressive Marxism with a squirt of artificial flavoring. Far more likely they take over someone elses’ existing colony though.
So, we have the same situation Zubrin lays out in the quote. Entrenched powers wont let experimentation take place and the ideologies (various strains of Marxism) that really need to be on their own and not forced on unwilling populaces wont be the ones out there starting new space communes but rather subverting established systems that run contrary to their ideology.
“And believe me, there are discoveries waiting to be made. We are surrounded by enormous unanswered questions, and they imply the existence of additional laws of physics we don’t currently comprehend. When you understand new laws of physics, that gives you new powers over nature. We’re having this conversation, you in England, me in Colorado, and we’re looking at each other and talking instantaneously. This would be complete magic to someone from three hundred years ago. They had no knowledge of electricity whatsoever. When you understand electromagnetism, or in the case of computers, quantum mechanics, then these sorts of feats of “magic” become possible. The possibilities are beyond imagination.”
Well, apparently we don’t know about 95% of “matter” in universe. And it seems we probably manage do fusion energy in space. But endless stuff.
But what is more immediate, we don’t know if humans can live low gravity Mars, or even if artificial gravity works.
And don’t know if Moon has mineable water or if Mars has mineable water.
And what about caves on Moon or Mars.
Though when is FAA going get it’s head out of it’s butt, would nice to know, also.
You’re right, we don’t know those things. We never will know those things until people go live on the moon and Mars and find out for themselves. My way of analogy, the first people who migrated away from their birthplaces and, over thousands of years, eventually spread over six continents didn’t know everything before embarking. They began by taking that first step, then another. Doubtless many died along the way, but humanity spread around the world. No doubt there were some who were too fearful or complacent to take such risks so they stayed put. That’s fine. If only a small percentage of the Earth’s population is willing to risk moving offworld, that could still be millions of people. Let’s not stand in their way.
When my great great grandparents came to the Edmonton area in 1890, there was nothing here. Just an endless sea of grass. There were no sawmills or grain mills or roads, just one railroad. No nearby trees either, at least none suitable for lumber.
They lived in a sod house for three years, until they could get lumber shipped in to build a house. They arrived with three small children. They had four more children here, all of whom died before the age of five.
It will be the same in humanity’s migration into space. It will be very hard, people will have to make do with what they have, and a lot of people will die. A lot. But a hundred years later their descendants will just assume that the plenty they see around them are just the way things are, and that food comes at the press of a button.
“It will be the same in humanity’s migration into space. ”
It doesn’t have to be. Things are not as they once were. I can’t imagine selling leaving Earth with a line of, “Most everyone will die but you might not.”
We have to bring our comfort with us just to survive and while there will be all kinds of new ways to die discovered, they will be different than those suffered by terrestrial pioneers. Rather than seeing a bunch of kids die due to malnutrition or disease, tragedy could come from the loss of entire colonies and ships.
I am all for variable gravity stations but by the time one could be built, we can already have people living in these places. You are absolutely right that we need these answers but it looks like we will find the answers as we experience things first hand.
A variable gravity station, could have two dragon capsules with a rope.
But it seems one could better than this.
I would use the second stage of falcon 9, but modify it- make taller and the added taller section has floors-
Don’t use spent second part as living quarters- it’s just 4 tons of mass and 10 meter of length.
Call it a short stick gravity station.
See how short stick “works”.
And for the extended mission, attached rope from it to dragon capsule. Bring 50 meters of rope. Try 10, 20, etc to 50 meter added. Do you need an even taller stick than this?
Find out.
But also not doing 1 gee. The most should be 1/3 gravity. And want to try 1/10th gravity also. So do 1/10th and up to 1/3rd.
This about Mars gravity. But it also tell something about Moon [particularly before anyone does lunar base}.
Why even consider Mars or Lunar bases, before doing this?
I would do not lunar bases, to explore Moon, but need Mars bases to explore Mars.
Human fetus development under Mars gravity…? I would like to three or four successive generations of animal pregnancies (pygmy pigs, maybe) raised at 1/3rd g before we try the experiment with humans.
Still if we are talking colonization then we must talk about bearing and raising children.
“Now it will be possible for companies to create orbital research labs, their own space stations, for less than $100 million—not pocket change, but well within the budget of a Fortune 500 company.”
But way less complicated to just book a flight and a stay rather than build, maintain and fully utilize a station. This isn’t a company jet that benefits the CEO, so inefficiencies wont be glossed over.
“t’s not a problem for us, but a benefit, if the sons and daughters of Chinese parents become scientists and engineers, because then China will start contributing to human progress in a way comparable to Western nations.”
I don’t think the latter will will happen and that the former is a problem. Let’s not be complacent. Let’s not be gullible. Let’s not forget the concentration camps and involuntary harvesting of human organs. Maybe take some of that Russian blood lust sweeping the country and channel it into not bending over for China?
“They were implementing the ideas of 18th-century liberalism, which were well known in Europe but not widely implemented because the existing power structures prevented it. But we gave it a try in America. ”
Incredibly important point. The issues surrounding creation vs revolution in the context of ideological heredity deserve their own thread. You don’t need a Year Zero if you have voluntary adherents to your new ideology. We can just ignore that the “new” ideology is just Progressive Marxism with a squirt of artificial flavoring. Far more likely they take over someone elses’ existing colony though.
So, we have the same situation Zubrin lays out in the quote. Entrenched powers wont let experimentation take place and the ideologies (various strains of Marxism) that really need to be on their own and not forced on unwilling populaces wont be the ones out there starting new space communes but rather subverting established systems that run contrary to their ideology.
“And believe me, there are discoveries waiting to be made. We are surrounded by enormous unanswered questions, and they imply the existence of additional laws of physics we don’t currently comprehend. When you understand new laws of physics, that gives you new powers over nature. We’re having this conversation, you in England, me in Colorado, and we’re looking at each other and talking instantaneously. This would be complete magic to someone from three hundred years ago. They had no knowledge of electricity whatsoever. When you understand electromagnetism, or in the case of computers, quantum mechanics, then these sorts of feats of “magic” become possible. The possibilities are beyond imagination.”
Well, apparently we don’t know about 95% of “matter” in universe. And it seems we probably manage do fusion energy in space. But endless stuff.
But what is more immediate, we don’t know if humans can live low gravity Mars, or even if artificial gravity works.
And don’t know if Moon has mineable water or if Mars has mineable water.
And what about caves on Moon or Mars.
Though when is FAA going get it’s head out of it’s butt, would nice to know, also.
You’re right, we don’t know those things. We never will know those things until people go live on the moon and Mars and find out for themselves. My way of analogy, the first people who migrated away from their birthplaces and, over thousands of years, eventually spread over six continents didn’t know everything before embarking. They began by taking that first step, then another. Doubtless many died along the way, but humanity spread around the world. No doubt there were some who were too fearful or complacent to take such risks so they stayed put. That’s fine. If only a small percentage of the Earth’s population is willing to risk moving offworld, that could still be millions of people. Let’s not stand in their way.
When my great great grandparents came to the Edmonton area in 1890, there was nothing here. Just an endless sea of grass. There were no sawmills or grain mills or roads, just one railroad. No nearby trees either, at least none suitable for lumber.
They lived in a sod house for three years, until they could get lumber shipped in to build a house. They arrived with three small children. They had four more children here, all of whom died before the age of five.
It will be the same in humanity’s migration into space. It will be very hard, people will have to make do with what they have, and a lot of people will die. A lot. But a hundred years later their descendants will just assume that the plenty they see around them are just the way things are, and that food comes at the press of a button.
“It will be the same in humanity’s migration into space. ”
It doesn’t have to be. Things are not as they once were. I can’t imagine selling leaving Earth with a line of, “Most everyone will die but you might not.”
We have to bring our comfort with us just to survive and while there will be all kinds of new ways to die discovered, they will be different than those suffered by terrestrial pioneers. Rather than seeing a bunch of kids die due to malnutrition or disease, tragedy could come from the loss of entire colonies and ships.
I am all for variable gravity stations but by the time one could be built, we can already have people living in these places. You are absolutely right that we need these answers but it looks like we will find the answers as we experience things first hand.
A variable gravity station, could have two dragon capsules with a rope.
But it seems one could better than this.
I would use the second stage of falcon 9, but modify it- make taller and the added taller section has floors-
Don’t use spent second part as living quarters- it’s just 4 tons of mass and 10 meter of length.
Call it a short stick gravity station.
See how short stick “works”.
And for the extended mission, attached rope from it to dragon capsule. Bring 50 meters of rope. Try 10, 20, etc to 50 meter added. Do you need an even taller stick than this?
Find out.
But also not doing 1 gee. The most should be 1/3 gravity. And want to try 1/10th gravity also. So do 1/10th and up to 1/3rd.
This about Mars gravity. But it also tell something about Moon [particularly before anyone does lunar base}.
Why even consider Mars or Lunar bases, before doing this?
I would do not lunar bases, to explore Moon, but need Mars bases to explore Mars.
Human fetus development under Mars gravity…? I would like to three or four successive generations of animal pregnancies (pygmy pigs, maybe) raised at 1/3rd g before we try the experiment with humans.
Still if we are talking colonization then we must talk about bearing and raising children.