13 thoughts on “Why The Ukrainians Will Never Surrender”
Because they are Nazis. Prove me wrong.
Prove they are.You’re the one making the assertion. The burden of proof is on you. Do not presume to give the rest of us homework.
Lame Dick, very lame.
New york times Jan 25,2014 (not my favorite source but maybe yours)
““Officials in Kiev say the militias and the army coordinate their actions, but the militias, which count about 7,000 fighters, are angry and, at times, uncontrollable. One known as Azov, which took over the village of Marinka, flies a neo-Nazi symbol resembling a Swastika as its flag.”
Not my favorite source, no. Buncha wokester trash talkers bankrolled by a Mexican billionaire. But the story is at least accurate in this instance.
The Azov Regiment, does wear a lot of Nazi symbology. Which doesn’t make them Nazis. It makes them an outfit of Ukrainian patriots who enthusiastically threw in with the Nazis once Operation Barbarossa was underway because they found even the Nazis far preferable to the Soviets who had inflicted the Holodomor on Ukraine just a few years earlier. They viewed the Nazis as saviors and continued to resist the Soviets for as much as a decade after the Nazis had been pushed back out of the Soviet Union and Ukraine and then defeated. They continue to wear the Nazi symbology as a sort of “middle-finger salute” to the still-hated Russians.
The Nazis surrendered to the Soviet army. Repeatedly.
A lot of the Russian propaganda about Ukrainian Nazis is just sad and pathetic. My conclusion is that since Russians had to at least pretend to believe anything Moscow said, the Russian propaganda folks never learned how to make anything believable. In fact, I think that was one of the points of the exercise, a form of mental domination to make people accept that they were always being lied to.
In an hour I could put together far more convincing evidence than Indiana is overrun not just with Nazis, but SS Panzer divisions straight out of WW-II. War re-enactments are a pretty popular hobby, and the participants put a lot of emphasis on gear and authenticity. A lot of the photos could be passed off as authentic WW-II history, except for the occasional Toyota or Nissan in the background.
Sure George, New York times works for Putin.
Indeed. They famously white-washed the Holodomor to protect Stalin, and got a Pulitzer Prize for it.
ok, 1932. What’s your take on the NYT article I cited above?
In 2014 Azov had about 600 members, and only a small number of them were neo-Nazis, which is an edgy identity fairly popular among young biker types in Europe. But they almost all left after Azov was made a regular army unit controlled from Kyiv and having to answer to the chain of command. The leading neo-Nazi quit to form his own political party, which has yet to win a seat anywhere in any governing body of anything.
In subsequent years the Russians paid a DPR/LPR businessman to continue to stage fake Nazi photos to keep Russians fired up about “Nazis in Ukraine”, and most such photos are ridiculously poor and filled with all kinds of basic mistakes.
And the whole thing stems back to WW-II and the post-war period when Stalin redefined “Nazi” to mean “anti-Russian”. I’ve debated many Russians about it, and they generally have no idea what the Nazis actually believed, and how close it was to Soviet ideology. The Soviet leadership didn’t want Soviet citizens realizing how uncomfortably similar the two systems were, so they told them that Nazis were uber-capitalists.
They many Russians I’ve argued with are convinced that FDR backed Hitler, and that the US in the 30’s and 40’s was a hotbed of Nazism. They supply lots of materials to try and back that up. They also claim that WW-II was started by Poland, along with a long string of bizarre takes that identify them as definitely Russian, since absolutely nobody but Russians would have such a twisted and self-serving version of history that’s so at odds will all documented evidence.
And of course they think the US has been run by actual Nazis since the war. Joe Biden is a Nazi, as is Donald Trump, as was LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, and Obama. Nazis also run all the NATO and EU countries, and it’s up to Russia to liberate all of Europe from Nazi rule.
It seems to have dawned on Yevgeny Prigozhin that he’s never setting foot outside Russia unless it’s to go on trial for war crimes. He seemed quick to try to convince the world that the latest Wagner Group recruiting video where they crushed the skull of a supposed deserter with a sledge hammer was really just a funny, funny joke. All these oligarchs realizing that it doesn’t really matter if their supper yacht was seized or not, they’re never seeing it again anyway. What’s the point of stealing billions if you have to spend it in Russia.
Will any member of the Russian armed forces be allowed to leave the country? I wouldn’t want the job of trying to attract foreign investment into Russia no matter how this war ends. For average Russians, those not sacrificed trying fulfill Putin’s fantasies, just more Russian history as usual.
The Ukrainians will never surrender. However, the likelihood they will be surrendered is a bit higher.
When Joe and the Deep state has laundered all the money they can, sure why not?
Because they are Nazis. Prove me wrong.
Prove they are. You’re the one making the assertion. The burden of proof is on you. Do not presume to give the rest of us homework.
Lame Dick, very lame.
New york times Jan 25,2014 (not my favorite source but maybe yours)
““Officials in Kiev say the militias and the army coordinate their actions, but the militias, which count about 7,000 fighters, are angry and, at times, uncontrollable. One known as Azov, which took over the village of Marinka, flies a neo-Nazi symbol resembling a Swastika as its flag.”
Not my favorite source, no. Buncha wokester trash talkers bankrolled by a Mexican billionaire. But the story is at least accurate in this instance.
The Azov Regiment, does wear a lot of Nazi symbology. Which doesn’t make them Nazis. It makes them an outfit of Ukrainian patriots who enthusiastically threw in with the Nazis once Operation Barbarossa was underway because they found even the Nazis far preferable to the Soviets who had inflicted the Holodomor on Ukraine just a few years earlier. They viewed the Nazis as saviors and continued to resist the Soviets for as much as a decade after the Nazis had been pushed back out of the Soviet Union and Ukraine and then defeated. They continue to wear the Nazi symbology as a sort of “middle-finger salute” to the still-hated Russians.
The Nazis surrendered to the Soviet army. Repeatedly.
A lot of the Russian propaganda about Ukrainian Nazis is just sad and pathetic. My conclusion is that since Russians had to at least pretend to believe anything Moscow said, the Russian propaganda folks never learned how to make anything believable. In fact, I think that was one of the points of the exercise, a form of mental domination to make people accept that they were always being lied to.
In an hour I could put together far more convincing evidence than Indiana is overrun not just with Nazis, but SS Panzer divisions straight out of WW-II. War re-enactments are a pretty popular hobby, and the participants put a lot of emphasis on gear and authenticity. A lot of the photos could be passed off as authentic WW-II history, except for the occasional Toyota or Nissan in the background.
Sure George, New York times works for Putin.
Indeed. They famously white-washed the Holodomor to protect Stalin, and got a Pulitzer Prize for it.
ok, 1932. What’s your take on the NYT article I cited above?
In 2014 Azov had about 600 members, and only a small number of them were neo-Nazis, which is an edgy identity fairly popular among young biker types in Europe. But they almost all left after Azov was made a regular army unit controlled from Kyiv and having to answer to the chain of command. The leading neo-Nazi quit to form his own political party, which has yet to win a seat anywhere in any governing body of anything.
In subsequent years the Russians paid a DPR/LPR businessman to continue to stage fake Nazi photos to keep Russians fired up about “Nazis in Ukraine”, and most such photos are ridiculously poor and filled with all kinds of basic mistakes.
And the whole thing stems back to WW-II and the post-war period when Stalin redefined “Nazi” to mean “anti-Russian”. I’ve debated many Russians about it, and they generally have no idea what the Nazis actually believed, and how close it was to Soviet ideology. The Soviet leadership didn’t want Soviet citizens realizing how uncomfortably similar the two systems were, so they told them that Nazis were uber-capitalists.
They many Russians I’ve argued with are convinced that FDR backed Hitler, and that the US in the 30’s and 40’s was a hotbed of Nazism. They supply lots of materials to try and back that up. They also claim that WW-II was started by Poland, along with a long string of bizarre takes that identify them as definitely Russian, since absolutely nobody but Russians would have such a twisted and self-serving version of history that’s so at odds will all documented evidence.
And of course they think the US has been run by actual Nazis since the war. Joe Biden is a Nazi, as is Donald Trump, as was LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, and Obama. Nazis also run all the NATO and EU countries, and it’s up to Russia to liberate all of Europe from Nazi rule.
It seems to have dawned on Yevgeny Prigozhin that he’s never setting foot outside Russia unless it’s to go on trial for war crimes. He seemed quick to try to convince the world that the latest Wagner Group recruiting video where they crushed the skull of a supposed deserter with a sledge hammer was really just a funny, funny joke. All these oligarchs realizing that it doesn’t really matter if their supper yacht was seized or not, they’re never seeing it again anyway. What’s the point of stealing billions if you have to spend it in Russia.
Will any member of the Russian armed forces be allowed to leave the country? I wouldn’t want the job of trying to attract foreign investment into Russia no matter how this war ends. For average Russians, those not sacrificed trying fulfill Putin’s fantasies, just more Russian history as usual.
The Ukrainians will never surrender. However, the likelihood they will be surrendered is a bit higher.
When Joe and the Deep state has laundered all the money they can, sure why not?