I hadn’t realized how big Stupak’s congressional district is. It’s the entire Upper Peninsula and the top of the Lower Peninsula. I would have thought that’s Republican territory. It may be now, if it wasn’t before.
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I would have thought that’s Republican territory.
Why? Yoopers, for example, tend to be pretty much like Minnesotans, in terms of their ancestry – lots of Scandinavians – and the UP votes for culturally conservative but socially liberal Democrats.
culturally conservative but socially liberal => no to drugs, yes to taxpayer-funded teen programs, for example.
Minnesotans often elect Republicans. As do people in upper Wisconsin.
Three large universities in the UP, coupled with large welfare numbers (it’s a very, very poor place) pretty much insure a democrat majority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Peninsula_of_Michigan#Politics
As a born and raised Yooper I can tell you that the politics of northern Michigan are not notably different from the urbanized downstate part with the notable exception that there is essentially no black population north of the Big Mac Bridge. There are plenty of Republicans in the U.P. but there are also a lot of government employees as the major private sector industies – mining, forest products, paper, etc. – have been in decline even longer than the automakers in the southern part of the state. Tourism hasn’t made up the difference. When I left 40 years ago, the U.P. had a population of 300,000. It still does. What young people there are still pretty much leave if they have the chance and are just barely offset by retirees who like to hunt and fish moving in.
Stupak is in big political trouble now because he, in essence, lied to both sides of the Obamacare debate. Not a strategy calculated to enhance one’s political longevity. His district tilts a bit Democratic, but it has elected Republicans in the past and might do so again this November because of the current extraordinary circumstances. There are a lot of Catholics in the U.P. and, while they tilt Democratic, I can’t see Bart being their fair-haired boy after geeking on abortion/Obamacare.
What’s Tim Pawlenty’s party?
Right, but a) What’s Tim Pawlenty, really? RINO. 🙂 and b) Nevermind Al Franken… Norm Coleman? RINO!
Ok, actually, I think the GOP needs more moderates so I’m not complaining.
How about Michele Bachmann’s?
Michele Bachmann is from the 6th district. But the 8th district borders the UP. So, compare the 6th and the 8th with the UP and draw your own conclusions.
“en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota%27s_6th_congressional_district”
compare with
“en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota%27s_8th_congressional_district”
Spoiler: the 8th has been Democratic (actually DFL) since 1947…
Whoops, of course, by “borders” I don’t mean “borders”, but “nearest”. 🙂
One last comment: the district I mistakenly skipped over is Wisconsin’s 7th district, which does border the UP and has been Democratic since 1969. Its representative is Obey, who has an unfortunate name for an American political leader and who I think isn’t very popular with most readers of this blog.
I’ve looked through a couple of what could be conservative websites: American Spectator, RedState, Hot Air, Ace of Spades. None consider Tim Pawlenty to be a RINO. Sure, some troll in comments threw out the term, sort of like how our own troll at this blog did so. But none of the main contributors that attract like minded fiscal conservatives consider Tim Pawlenty a RINO.
CATO on Pawlenty
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/06/24/a-big-government-running-mate-for-mccain/
Supported government subsidized health care for all children as the first step toward universal health insurance, and opposed President Bush’s veto of a Democratic bill that would have expanded the State Children’s Health Insurance program (SCHIP) to families earning as much as $83,000 per year;
Supports Massachusetts-style health care reform, including a “health care exchange” and an individual mandate;
Has called for banning all prescription drug advertizing, and seeks government imposed price controls for drugs offered through Medicare;
Proposed a $4000 per child preschool program for low-income children;
Pushed a statewide smoking ban smoking ban in workplaces, restaurants and bars;
Increased the state’s minimum wage;
Imposed some of the most aggressive and expensive renewable energy mandates in the country;
Was an ardent supporter of the farm bill;
Received only a “C” ranking on Cato’s 2006 Governor’s Report Card, finishing below such Democrats as Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack and tied with Democratic Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell.
Leland, if you look at this thread, I’m proud that I’ve been offering facts. Rand recently banned a commenter for not being, in Rand’s words, value-added (I would describe it as systematically investigating all the possible ways one can be obnoxious). That guy was a troll. Why did you call me a troll?
I live in the UP, near Munising, and did not vote for Stupak last time around. In fact in the primary I voted for Fred Thompson, one of the 7% in the State that did. But I had decided to support Stupak next time around based in part because of his position in favor of nuclear power and then his standing firm against government run health care.
My support went out the window along with his principles. In 2008 Obama won the district in a relatively tight contest, Stupak did much better. It is hard to imagine him losing in the fall, but not as hard as it once was.
Why did you call me a troll?
Because you claim
What’s Tim Pawlenty, really? RINO.
But then claim this as
I’m proud that I’ve been offering facts.
It’s not a fact, and you are proud to be saying things that are not facts.
A spade is a spade. A troll is a troll.
Why do you think the Cato Institute’s list doesn’t show Pawlenty to be a RINO?
2008 campaign for Congress
* Bart Stupak (D), 65.04%
* Tom Casperson (R), 32.74%
Yes, this will be an interesting race to watch in November.
“2008 campaign for Congress
* Bart Stupak (D), 65.04%
* Tom Casperson (R), 32.74%
Yes, this will be an interesting race to watch in November.”
“Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances. “
Bob-1 said:
“Yoopers, for example, tend to be pretty much like Minnesotans, in terms of their ancestry – lots of Scandinavians – and the UP votes for culturally conservative but socially liberal Democrats.”
The 8th district of Minnesota is still in Minnesota, and provides a counter-example to that statement. When you said:
“Michele Bachmann is from the 6th district. But the 8th district borders the UP. So, compare the 6th and the 8th with the UP and draw your own conclusions.”
you moved the goalposts.
Hal, It sounds like we don’t agree on the goal, let alone the goalposts. Yes, Minnesota elects Republicans, particularly in suburban areas, and if you think a suburban district like the 6th will help you predict the fate of Stupak’s district (my goal, yours too?), have at it! Bachman, incidentally, lives in the most Democratic part of her district. Even if she could otherwise get re-elected, post-census redistricting may squeeze her out of office….
you moved the goalposts.
Yes, trolls do that.
Leland, can a Democrat participate in political discussions on this blog without being labeled a troll by you? Is Chris G. a troll? Are all of the left-leaning people who comment here trolls? If not, what are the necessary ingredients?
Well, Bob, you could try sticking to the merits of the Democratic line, rather than throwing out useless labels on Republicans you dislike. In short, try by not being a hypocrit. If you don’t like labels, don’t use labels.
Thank you. I think you misunderstood me (I was imagining what someone from Cato would say, not pretending to be from there myself), but I appreciate your reply. The thing is, “RINO” is actually a pretty useful internet search term. Using “RINO” as search term was a quick and easy way to get info on Pawlenty. Since the term is derogatory, it selects for a certain biased viewpoint, of course, but how else would you get the same information? “Rockefeller Republican” is a term that has gone out of fashion. Here’s a discussion, although the article is clearly a work-in-progress: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)
Anyway, I hope you found the information from the Cato Institute on Pawlenty interesting.
Another sign of trolls is pretending to be something they are not.
Bob-1:
You initial comment, “Minnesotans, … and the UP votes for culturally conservative but socially liberal Democrats.”, contradicts your later comment, “Minnesota elects Republicans, particularly in suburban areas.”, since the latter demographic is in fact included in the first demographic. I will accept the latter comment as an admission the first one not supported by the facts.
Hal, you are absolutely right. I was talking about trends and I was not choosing my words very precisely. I do think we both made the points we wanted to make.