Now we’re at the point where they know, “If we can’t shop around for a judge who’ll come to the ‘right’ decision because they’re on our side, or because we’ve got dirt on them, we can just bring in a rent-a-mob to make sure juries decide a case the ‘right’ way if they know what’s good for their kids.”
Look to Mexico’s drug cartels if you want to know what happens when enough people come to the conclusion: “Voting doesn’t matter, and juries are anything but fair.”
My thoughts:
George Floyd needed to be arrested and taken off the street.
That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.
Floyd’s death is more about his addiction to drugs than any action by anyone else.
Activist who want to remove guns from America, for whatever reason good or bad, want to take guns from both citizens and police.
Leaders of such activists were looking for an incident like George Floyd’s death to elevate this to a national level.
Chauvin’s actions and behaviors played into achieving the goals of such activists.
Whatever right of Chauvin’s procedures or wrong from the Department authorizing such procedures; Chauvin used pressure to keep Floyd on the ground far longer than appears necessary to my reasoning.
Government officials of any sort should not get carte blanch to behave in a manner that ordinary citizens are barred.
Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.
The behavior of Waters and Biden is over the line.
Waters and Biden comments did taint the results.
Chauvin will win an appeal that reduces sentencing, but the tainted judiciary will never let him go.
I agree, the trial wasn’t fair and the results can’t be trusted.
A pox on all their houses.
Well said. I am also of the opinion no one was clean in this trial, but I don’t know what other results were to be expected given our cultural climate.
“That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.
Floyd’s death is more about his addiction to drugs than any action by anyone else.”
So..if had not been on drugs he (Floyd) would have survived Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes? Or if he wasn’t a drug user he wouldn’t have been arrested in the first place so therefore he deserved what happened to him? Did Chauvin follow the police/legal guidelines on the use of restraining/compliance force? Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS?
This case was lost the minute the jury saw the video. Whatever the context, it would be hard to vote not guilty after seeing that. I think the defense understood that and tried to prepare their client for the worst.
“This case was lost the minute the jury saw the video. Whatever the context, it would be hard to vote not guilty after seeing that.”
Yes. As to the autopsy reports:
“Two autopsy reports — one by a private medical examiner commissioned by Floyd’s family and another by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner — reached the same conclusion: that Floyd died of homicide, meaning death at the hands of someone else.”
Tim,
Per your first question read the coroners report presented by the state as evidence.
To your second question, all I can say is read the transcript of the 911 call. The call was for passing a counterfeit $20. His arrest wasn’t about drugs. Floyd had a history of committing crimes in Houston and simply moved his operation to Minneapolis. Are you cool with Floyd’s robbing people while threatening them with a deadly weapon? That was his seventh felony arrest. Some states only give 3 strikes.
Most of your questions show an ignorance or inability to comprehend what I wrote. Let me demonstrate:
Did Chauvin follow the police/legal guidelines on the use of restraining/compliance force? Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.
Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS? Government officials of any sort should not get carte blanch to behave in a manner that ordinary citizens are barred.
Sorry Leland I actually typed my response based on your opening “thoughts”. Having said that it is hard to reconcile a person having these thoughts about the same incident in rapid succession:
“That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.”
Contrasted with:
“Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.”
If you believe that Floyd’s death was not of Chauvin’s doing then how can you argue that he deserved to be found guilty of murder/manslaughter?!
And also no one is objecting to his being arrested and taking off the streets for breaking the law we/I just object to his being murdered.
I didn’t say Chauvin should be guilty of murder/manslaughter. But since you seem to be being reasonable in your question, I’ll expand on my statement.
Based on the coroner’s report, I don’t think Chauvin killed Floyd. I didn’t see all the evidence reported, so I’m not sure what I would consider as the proper charge. My understanding of the murder 2 charge in Minnesota is that Chauvin need only be shown to have committed a felony related to a death of a person. From what I have seen, I could convict on the assault claim or negligence. The former is apparently enough for murder 2, since Floyd did die. I’d call myself on the fence here, but Chauvin’s action don’t deserve my defense in Internet forums on whether his charge is an over reach. Thus, my statement about his guilt.
Imagine if I was on the jury. I’d probably vote initially on acquittal, but I’d probably come around to the guilty side. If the charge was only assault or negligence, I’d have voted guilty from the start.
This is important to me, because I don’t think the other cops deserve to be convicted for the same crime. They didn’t help Floyd, but they also didn’t help Chauvin once they realized Floyd was in duress. As a former FBI Director said, there are other administrative penalties for their actions that don’t require a trial. But if tried for negligence…
Finally, I do think if proper procedure was followed, Floyd may have survived. However, there are many things Floyd could have done that day to prevent his untimely death. That is really my point, and not TS simply because he too made poor decisions. Lots of bad decisions by all lead to a bad outcome, and I think more bad outcomes will occur related to Rand’s original post.
Thank you for the apology. This is an ugly situation That won’t be resolved short of fair and honest conversation. You seem willing to have it.
“Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS?”
A lot of Jujitsu practitioners think cops need to be allowed to use choke holds and proper training in how to apply them. There is clearly a big difference in how they use chokes and how you imagine choke holds.
When you expect cops to wrestle people into submission, you have to allow them to use submission moves. When you take away these tools, you leave cops with alternatives like poking holes in people.
By all means share with the world the magic martial arts that will allow cops to wrestle people without any wrestling and no one getting hurt.
“Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes”
That didn’t happen. Facts matter, details matter. You are clearly not interested in either.
“Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes”
That didn’t happen. Facts matter, details matter. You are clearly not interested in either.”
Your right he didn’t stand on his neck cutting off his air for 9 minutes he kneed on his neck cutting off his air for 9 minutes.
“Everyone, including these jurors, knew exactly what would happen to them at the hands of mobs like this if they expressed a reasonable doubt about whether a man who died while overdosing and with a serious heart condition was actually killed by a police officer kneeling on him after he had struggled with police repeatedly. Reasonable doubts about whether the jury’s decision was justice or politics seem fully justified.”
“..kneeling on him”? no that wouldn’t necessary kill you, but with my foot &body weight on your neck where you couldn’t breathe while being restrained by three other men, yes that would likely do it. Regardless whether you were high or sober or good heart or not so good. My understanding is that he (Chauvin) didn’t finally remove his foot from Floyd’s neck until some 3 minutes after he stopped breathing. He must have though he was maybe playing “possum”? Was he guilty? Yes. As to the point of whether he got a fair trial with all the publicity, thinly veiled threats against the un-sequestered jurors from everyone up to senior officials of the US Government other bungling by the judge; another question.
The kneeling, if on the back or shoulder, might be justified, but only so long as it takes to handcuff a person.
Except Floyd was already handcuffed and the amount of time even before unconsciousness was absurd. I’d have problems breathing if you put pressure on my diaphragm that long and I can see a person going into shock for a host of reasons. Chauvin’s action crossed the line, even any grey area of that line, so I won’t defend him or the procedures if they were considered appropriate.
The other officers suck, but short of assaulting Chauvin to get him off of Floyd, I don’t know what else they could have effectively done. Walking away wouldn’t have saved Floyd. They did tell Chauvin to stop. They could have been more belligerent in their request, but that might also have incited the crowd that had gathered.
Assuming the below isn’t fake, and I am 99% certain it isn’t, how does one murder another human by holding them down yet not causing any physical injury of any kind?
From page 2 of the autopsy report by Dr Andrew Baker:
“III. No life-threatening injuries identified
A. No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae
B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures
C. No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries
D. No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries
E. Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma”
Hush. You know facts are irrelevant.
“Hush. You know facts are irrelevant.”
Yes a coroner’s report/testimony is a fact. As is the eyewitness testimonies and of course the video which the jury saw. If I witnessed three men pining someone to the ground with a fourth man with his foot standing on the man’s neck who complained of not being able to breathe until he expired (or saw video showing such); I would consider those facts as well. What would you call them? Rumors? Innuendo? Hearsay?
Regardless of what untrained and biased bystanders thought they saw ( and we have scientific proof that eyewitness testimony is some of the most unreliable evidence there is) the autopsy is the final say on whether or not any physical harm was caused by the restraint methods used. And there wasn’t.
“Regardless of what untrained and biased bystanders thought they saw ( and we have scientific proof that eyewitness testimony is some of the most unreliable evidence there is) the autopsy is the final say on whether or not any physical harm was caused by the restraint methods used. And there wasn’t.”
Would I need a “trained eye” to look at a video tape of someone pinned to the ground with a knee constricting their neck to determine, this person can’t breathe? The untrained crowd of people observing it didn’t seem to have too much trouble figuring out that the man couldn’t breathe and they didn’t seem to have to much difficulty judging from comments made on the tape that he had stopped breathing.
“a fourth man with his foot standing on the man’s neck”
You mean knee and kneeling? It would certainly be uncomfortable, just like being in cuffs and sitting in a confined space. He was saying he couldn’t breath the whole time, prior to when he was in the car or on the ground.
He was a big guy getting put in a seat that had zero leg room. He was stoned out of his gourd and having a panic attack from being restrained in a confined space. He was having problems breathing because of how high he was and the panic attack.
I’m not sure what cops are supposed to do when someone is high out of their mind and isn’t cooperating.
“I’m not sure what cops are supposed to do when someone is high out of their mind and isn’t cooperating.”
Apparently they’re supposed to pat them on the head, say “have a good day” then drive away.
“You mean knee and kneeling? It would certainly be uncomfortable, just like being in cuffs and sitting in a confined space. He was saying he couldn’t breath the whole time, prior to when he was in the car or on the ground.”
Yes. I should have said knee and body weight on his neck.
Oh yeah…Chauvin’s innocent alright; if only Floyd hadn’t been on drugs/medical condition etc. he would have easily survived being asphyxiated. Some of the other Cops seemed most concerned with the bystanders not seeing/filming what they were doing to Floyd. If Chauvin was so sure of his innocence why didn’t he take the stand and explain how he wasn’t really cutting off the man’s air; it just looked like he was, tapes “lie”? He and his attorneys must have known he was likely toast after the jury saw the tape; what did he have to lose by taking the stand and asserting his innocence? Yes a coroner’s report/testimony is evidence/fact so is video tape; any competent jury would have to weigh both. It would be pretty hard to disregard what the jury saw on the tape coroner’s report or not.
Leland, excellent thoughts, though I am skeptical Chauvin will realize any gain on appeal. I do wish to take issue with this though: Activist who want to remove guns from America, for whatever reason good or bad, want to take guns from both citizens and police.
I am of the opinion that the leftist-progressive’s utopia is always “that which is not banned is mandated”. I keep going back to Covid and Sweden. Sweden basically did the same thing most other western nations did with one big exception: No enforcement. That, above all else, is what caused the left to sputter and spit. “You can’t get away with just recommending, just informing, you must enforce. There must be guns involved.”
The left has a gut-level distaste for guns no doubt. But at the end of the day they want state enforcement. They need it even. Without it they have trouble sleeping at night. Yes they are perfectly happy with that enforcement being delivered with truncheons over a universally unarmed populace. But they also know that isn’t practical (not yet at least), so they are going to find guns in the hands of state enforcement personnel to be a necessary inconvenience for now.
Curt,
I look at the UK. They banned guns, London banned knives, they removed guns from the police on the street, although they can call for backup.
The result; you can get arrested for a Tweet deemed to be mean or in London having scissors in a seamstress bag.
“I look at the UK. They banned guns, London banned knives, they removed guns from the police on the street, although they can call for backup.”
Is the “backup” disarmed as well?
No, but when seconds count, they are a half hour away.
Funny thing is watching the changing of the guards in Windsor. The guards carry rifles with fixed bayonets, but are escorted from the barracks to the castle by local police with carbines. The armed guards have armed guards.
“Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
Manner of death: Homicide
How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)”
Now we’re at the point where they know, “If we can’t shop around for a judge who’ll come to the ‘right’ decision because they’re on our side, or because we’ve got dirt on them, we can just bring in a rent-a-mob to make sure juries decide a case the ‘right’ way if they know what’s good for their kids.”
Look to Mexico’s drug cartels if you want to know what happens when enough people come to the conclusion: “Voting doesn’t matter, and juries are anything but fair.”
My thoughts:
George Floyd needed to be arrested and taken off the street.
That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.
Floyd’s death is more about his addiction to drugs than any action by anyone else.
Activist who want to remove guns from America, for whatever reason good or bad, want to take guns from both citizens and police.
Leaders of such activists were looking for an incident like George Floyd’s death to elevate this to a national level.
Chauvin’s actions and behaviors played into achieving the goals of such activists.
Whatever right of Chauvin’s procedures or wrong from the Department authorizing such procedures; Chauvin used pressure to keep Floyd on the ground far longer than appears necessary to my reasoning.
Government officials of any sort should not get carte blanch to behave in a manner that ordinary citizens are barred.
Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.
The behavior of Waters and Biden is over the line.
Waters and Biden comments did taint the results.
Chauvin will win an appeal that reduces sentencing, but the tainted judiciary will never let him go.
I agree, the trial wasn’t fair and the results can’t be trusted.
A pox on all their houses.
Well said. I am also of the opinion no one was clean in this trial, but I don’t know what other results were to be expected given our cultural climate.
“That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.
Floyd’s death is more about his addiction to drugs than any action by anyone else.”
So..if had not been on drugs he (Floyd) would have survived Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes? Or if he wasn’t a drug user he wouldn’t have been arrested in the first place so therefore he deserved what happened to him? Did Chauvin follow the police/legal guidelines on the use of restraining/compliance force? Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS?
This case was lost the minute the jury saw the video. Whatever the context, it would be hard to vote not guilty after seeing that. I think the defense understood that and tried to prepare their client for the worst.
“This case was lost the minute the jury saw the video. Whatever the context, it would be hard to vote not guilty after seeing that.”
Yes. As to the autopsy reports:
“Two autopsy reports — one by a private medical examiner commissioned by Floyd’s family and another by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner — reached the same conclusion: that Floyd died of homicide, meaning death at the hands of someone else.”
https://www.vox.com/22373351/george-floyd-autopsy-medical-examiner-report
Tim,
Per your first question read the coroners report presented by the state as evidence.
To your second question, all I can say is read the transcript of the 911 call. The call was for passing a counterfeit $20. His arrest wasn’t about drugs. Floyd had a history of committing crimes in Houston and simply moved his operation to Minneapolis. Are you cool with Floyd’s robbing people while threatening them with a deadly weapon? That was his seventh felony arrest. Some states only give 3 strikes.
Most of your questions show an ignorance or inability to comprehend what I wrote. Let me demonstrate:
Did Chauvin follow the police/legal guidelines on the use of restraining/compliance force?
Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.
Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS?
Government officials of any sort should not get carte blanch to behave in a manner that ordinary citizens are barred.
Sorry Leland I actually typed my response based on your opening “thoughts”. Having said that it is hard to reconcile a person having these thoughts about the same incident in rapid succession:
“That Floyd died is not of Chauvin’s doing.”
Contrasted with:
“Chauvin’s behavior was over the line.
Chauvin is guilty and deserved to be found as such by a jury.”
If you believe that Floyd’s death was not of Chauvin’s doing then how can you argue that he deserved to be found guilty of murder/manslaughter?!
And also no one is objecting to his being arrested and taking off the streets for breaking the law we/I just object to his being murdered.
I didn’t say Chauvin should be guilty of murder/manslaughter. But since you seem to be being reasonable in your question, I’ll expand on my statement.
Based on the coroner’s report, I don’t think Chauvin killed Floyd. I didn’t see all the evidence reported, so I’m not sure what I would consider as the proper charge. My understanding of the murder 2 charge in Minnesota is that Chauvin need only be shown to have committed a felony related to a death of a person. From what I have seen, I could convict on the assault claim or negligence. The former is apparently enough for murder 2, since Floyd did die. I’d call myself on the fence here, but Chauvin’s action don’t deserve my defense in Internet forums on whether his charge is an over reach. Thus, my statement about his guilt.
Imagine if I was on the jury. I’d probably vote initially on acquittal, but I’d probably come around to the guilty side. If the charge was only assault or negligence, I’d have voted guilty from the start.
This is important to me, because I don’t think the other cops deserve to be convicted for the same crime. They didn’t help Floyd, but they also didn’t help Chauvin once they realized Floyd was in duress. As a former FBI Director said, there are other administrative penalties for their actions that don’t require a trial. But if tried for negligence…
Finally, I do think if proper procedure was followed, Floyd may have survived. However, there are many things Floyd could have done that day to prevent his untimely death. That is really my point, and not TS simply because he too made poor decisions. Lots of bad decisions by all lead to a bad outcome, and I think more bad outcomes will occur related to Rand’s original post.
Thank you for the apology. This is an ugly situation That won’t be resolved short of fair and honest conversation. You seem willing to have it.
“Are you saying cops are/should be allowed to choke someone into submission and if they die, TS?”
A lot of Jujitsu practitioners think cops need to be allowed to use choke holds and proper training in how to apply them. There is clearly a big difference in how they use chokes and how you imagine choke holds.
When you expect cops to wrestle people into submission, you have to allow them to use submission moves. When you take away these tools, you leave cops with alternatives like poking holes in people.
By all means share with the world the magic martial arts that will allow cops to wrestle people without any wrestling and no one getting hurt.
“Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes”
That didn’t happen. Facts matter, details matter. You are clearly not interested in either.
“Chauvin standing on his neck for 9 minutes”
That didn’t happen. Facts matter, details matter. You are clearly not interested in either.”
Your right he didn’t stand on his neck cutting off his air for 9 minutes he kneed on his neck cutting off his air for 9 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGCFHQ4yfdg
From the link:
“Everyone, including these jurors, knew exactly what would happen to them at the hands of mobs like this if they expressed a reasonable doubt about whether a man who died while overdosing and with a serious heart condition was actually killed by a police officer kneeling on him after he had struggled with police repeatedly. Reasonable doubts about whether the jury’s decision was justice or politics seem fully justified.”
“..kneeling on him”? no that wouldn’t necessary kill you, but with my foot &body weight on your neck where you couldn’t breathe while being restrained by three other men, yes that would likely do it. Regardless whether you were high or sober or good heart or not so good. My understanding is that he (Chauvin) didn’t finally remove his foot from Floyd’s neck until some 3 minutes after he stopped breathing. He must have though he was maybe playing “possum”? Was he guilty? Yes. As to the point of whether he got a fair trial with all the publicity, thinly veiled threats against the un-sequestered jurors from everyone up to senior officials of the US Government other bungling by the judge; another question.
The kneeling, if on the back or shoulder, might be justified, but only so long as it takes to handcuff a person.
Except Floyd was already handcuffed and the amount of time even before unconsciousness was absurd. I’d have problems breathing if you put pressure on my diaphragm that long and I can see a person going into shock for a host of reasons. Chauvin’s action crossed the line, even any grey area of that line, so I won’t defend him or the procedures if they were considered appropriate.
The other officers suck, but short of assaulting Chauvin to get him off of Floyd, I don’t know what else they could have effectively done. Walking away wouldn’t have saved Floyd. They did tell Chauvin to stop. They could have been more belligerent in their request, but that might also have incited the crowd that had gathered.
Assuming the below isn’t fake, and I am 99% certain it isn’t, how does one murder another human by holding them down yet not causing any physical injury of any kind?
From page 2 of the autopsy report by Dr Andrew Baker:
“III. No life-threatening injuries identified
A. No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae
B. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures
C. No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries
D. No chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries
E. Incision and subcutaneous dissection of posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks negative for occult trauma”
Hush. You know facts are irrelevant.
“Hush. You know facts are irrelevant.”
Yes a coroner’s report/testimony is a fact. As is the eyewitness testimonies and of course the video which the jury saw. If I witnessed three men pining someone to the ground with a fourth man with his foot standing on the man’s neck who complained of not being able to breathe until he expired (or saw video showing such); I would consider those facts as well. What would you call them? Rumors? Innuendo? Hearsay?
Regardless of what untrained and biased bystanders thought they saw ( and we have scientific proof that eyewitness testimony is some of the most unreliable evidence there is) the autopsy is the final say on whether or not any physical harm was caused by the restraint methods used. And there wasn’t.
“Regardless of what untrained and biased bystanders thought they saw ( and we have scientific proof that eyewitness testimony is some of the most unreliable evidence there is) the autopsy is the final say on whether or not any physical harm was caused by the restraint methods used. And there wasn’t.”
Would I need a “trained eye” to look at a video tape of someone pinned to the ground with a knee constricting their neck to determine, this person can’t breathe? The untrained crowd of people observing it didn’t seem to have too much trouble figuring out that the man couldn’t breathe and they didn’t seem to have to much difficulty judging from comments made on the tape that he had stopped breathing.
“a fourth man with his foot standing on the man’s neck”
You mean knee and kneeling? It would certainly be uncomfortable, just like being in cuffs and sitting in a confined space. He was saying he couldn’t breath the whole time, prior to when he was in the car or on the ground.
He was a big guy getting put in a seat that had zero leg room. He was stoned out of his gourd and having a panic attack from being restrained in a confined space. He was having problems breathing because of how high he was and the panic attack.
I’m not sure what cops are supposed to do when someone is high out of their mind and isn’t cooperating.
“I’m not sure what cops are supposed to do when someone is high out of their mind and isn’t cooperating.”
Apparently they’re supposed to pat them on the head, say “have a good day” then drive away.
“You mean knee and kneeling? It would certainly be uncomfortable, just like being in cuffs and sitting in a confined space. He was saying he couldn’t breath the whole time, prior to when he was in the car or on the ground.”
Yes. I should have said knee and body weight on his neck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGCFHQ4yfdg
Oh yeah…Chauvin’s innocent alright; if only Floyd hadn’t been on drugs/medical condition etc. he would have easily survived being asphyxiated. Some of the other Cops seemed most concerned with the bystanders not seeing/filming what they were doing to Floyd. If Chauvin was so sure of his innocence why didn’t he take the stand and explain how he wasn’t really cutting off the man’s air; it just looked like he was, tapes “lie”? He and his attorneys must have known he was likely toast after the jury saw the tape; what did he have to lose by taking the stand and asserting his innocence? Yes a coroner’s report/testimony is evidence/fact so is video tape; any competent jury would have to weigh both. It would be pretty hard to disregard what the jury saw on the tape coroner’s report or not.
Leland, excellent thoughts, though I am skeptical Chauvin will realize any gain on appeal. I do wish to take issue with this though:
Activist who want to remove guns from America, for whatever reason good or bad, want to take guns from both citizens and police.
I am of the opinion that the leftist-progressive’s utopia is always “that which is not banned is mandated”. I keep going back to Covid and Sweden. Sweden basically did the same thing most other western nations did with one big exception: No enforcement. That, above all else, is what caused the left to sputter and spit. “You can’t get away with just recommending, just informing, you must enforce. There must be guns involved.”
The left has a gut-level distaste for guns no doubt. But at the end of the day they want state enforcement. They need it even. Without it they have trouble sleeping at night. Yes they are perfectly happy with that enforcement being delivered with truncheons over a universally unarmed populace. But they also know that isn’t practical (not yet at least), so they are going to find guns in the hands of state enforcement personnel to be a necessary inconvenience for now.
Curt,
I look at the UK. They banned guns, London banned knives, they removed guns from the police on the street, although they can call for backup.
The result; you can get arrested for a Tweet deemed to be mean or in London having scissors in a seamstress bag.
“I look at the UK. They banned guns, London banned knives, they removed guns from the police on the street, although they can call for backup.”
Is the “backup” disarmed as well?
No, but when seconds count, they are a half hour away.
Funny thing is watching the changing of the guards in Windsor. The guards carry rifles with fixed bayonets, but are escorted from the barracks to the castle by local police with carbines. The armed guards have armed guards.
“Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
Manner of death: Homicide
How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)”
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf?referringSource=articleShare