28 thoughts on “Why Star Trek Isn’t Science Fiction”
Star Trek was never science fiction. Star Trek was always a sea story transplanted to outer space. The recent film Master and Commander could have been a Star Trek episode – the Captain was Captain Kirk, the Doctor character was Spock (not Bones — I’d have to dig out my copy of the movie and watch it to see which character resembled Doctor McCoy; I think there was someone).
And Doctor Who, alas, isn’t science fiction either. It’s The Wind In The Willows in space. The Doctor is Mr. Toad — complete with his car that he can barely drive and crashes into things like planets, time periods… His companion/sidekicks are Ratty and Mole and Badger; the various villains (Daleks et al) are the evil weasels, stoats, and ferrets, the other Time Lords are the officious judge and other authorities who lock poor Mr. Toad up in gaol, except for Romana, who is the gaoler’s daughter who helps him escape prison. Heck, in one “classic” episode when John Pertwee was playing the Doctor, he even dressed up as a charwoman…
I forgot to add — the first Star Trek series was obviously the sea story. The scripts even had Kirk reference clipper ships and other old-timey sailing vessels all the time. The later Star Treks were more like Voyage of the Damned, or maybe Love Boat.
I like the phrase “tech the tech”. Seems so appropriate to some buzzword-rich environments out there. Having said that, Star Trek does share something in common with real science fiction, namely, an urge to explain things rather than just say “It’s magic” and wiggle fingers mysteriously. The urge is wasted though on technobabble that is no better than some mystic chant in terms of explaining a story.
The comments are both hilarious and informative. Look for the one about “compressed water”. If you were developing an SF show and you can’t do better than that, maybe you should go into the exciting world of fast food.
Q: A real science fiction movie?
A: Blade Runner
A: 2001
An Inconvenient Truth. Oh wait — that’s a fantasy. Never mind.
I do like the idea of using “tech” as a verb, it has a nice four letter feel to it.
When is someone going to turn “Stars my destination” (AKA “Tiger Tiger”) into a movie? It seems like a good fit and is somewhat allegorical with regard to the current state of the world and the nature of space/tech development.
That article helped me finally understand how the 11th Congress writes legislation.
111th Congress. I hate it when I drop that particular “1.”
The first and last ones are optional, but lose that middle one and it changes the whole meaning of the comment.
The similarities were entirely intentional. James Kirk=James Cook. Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals.
I find it interesting that he uses Ronald D. Moore’s characterization of what he found wrong with the writing style of Star Trek:TNG to condemn an entire genre, even lumping Ron Moore’s re-imagining of BSG in with it. Luckily, people took him to task on it almost immediately in comments.
Anyone who watched the new BSG would know that it’s not “tech the tech, so that the tech will save us”. And anyone who ever listened to Ron Moore’s commentary tracks would know that he was intentionally AVOIDING that sort of writing, because he found it so abhorrent in ST:TNG.
The other thing Ron Moore took issue with in the writing of ST:TNG was the over-use of random exposition by characters to explain what was going on, essentially treating the audience as a bunch of mush-headed idiots.
For as let down as I was by the BSG finale, I still understand what Ron Moore was doing with the show, and listening to his commentary, you really got a good feeling that he knew what he was doing, even if he was hamstrung as a writer on ST:TNG.
Overall, I felt that Stross came across as an arrogant jerk, complaining about how he was the only one left who knew how to write Science Fiction, and how everyone else writing novels and producing shows and movies are a bunch of no-talent hacks. Doesn’t make me want to run out and buy any of his novels, that’s for sure.
Jim Bennet:
The similarities were entirely intentional. James Kirk=James Cook. Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals
Wrong verb Jim…
Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals
La petite mort?
The little death?
There is one episode where he dies in a ritual Vulcan fight to the death – but he gets better.
Yes, SF TV series pretty much suck as SF. But the TV series Stargate had real SF ideas in many of the episodes, such as the concept of the “replicators”.
I’m crying foul on Charlie. His book “The Jennifer Morgue”, which was very intertaining was all about character interactions, only he had Bob Howard gouling the goul, instead of teching the tech.
There is no “one true way” to write fiction. Some stories are remembered for their identifiable characters, and some are remembered for their unique plot devices.
I have started watching Stargate Universe since John Scalzi is the creative consultant on the show. We’ll see how he does with things like “compressible water”.
I believe I heard SF writer Ben Bova say the secret of SF was history. There is much to be said for that. Good SF creators look to see how humans of the past reacted to things beyond their knowledge to speculate how humans of the future could react to new developments in science and technology.
Please consider one of my favorite SF films — Star Trek: First Contact. Zefram Cochrane launches humanity’s first warp drive space ship from an abandoned missile base. What happened to the government? Various bases have been closed in our lifetimes — but hardware such as aircraft and weapons have not been left behind. Consider also the Borg. They are a collective who absorb individuals and take away their free will. See any similarities throughout history? You can even see parallels in today’s world. I could go on and on.
Put your replicators on stun and engage the holodeck to warp drive. We’re going to 10 forward for a tachyon torpedo served up Whoopi style. Mind your dilithium prime directives when adjusting the feedback on the graviton reflector dish. Mr. Data you have the battle bridge.
“The later Star Treks were more like Voyage of the Damned, or maybe Love Boat.”
How about ST-Voyager == Gilligan’s Island?
“Neeeelixxxx! We were about to be rescued and you got us stranded again. Wop, wop, wop (Janeway beats on him with a hat).”
Josh, I think you need to reverse the polarity. That might work.
Adaptation of an existing genre notwithstanding, I’d say that by comparison, the original Star Trek was definitely science fiction.
Was watching an episode of “House” the other night, and it dawned on me they, and probably all other “doctor” shows use the the same technique. Instead of “tech the tech” you get “med the med”. Of course we also have “legal the legal,” “cop the cop”, “CSI the CSI” “pilot talk the pilot talk” etc. etc…. Just shows how unimaginative Hollywood writers are…or that they have a formula that sells shows.
Andrea Harris,
I just picked up a book at the library that writer/director Nicholas Meyer wrote about some of his Hollywood experiences, including The Seven-Percent Solution and, most especially, his involvement in several Star Trek films.
When he discussed trying to work out the story for Wrath of Khan, he said his biggest insight and what would become for him the driving theme for the script was that Kirk was Horatio Hornblower and that Star Trek was really a collection of sea stories in space. He said that Roddenberry confirmed that influence, which is interesting, because Roddenberry often used the “Wagon Train to the Stars” analogy in his public statements.
Obviously, whatever the truth of that insight when applied to TOS, there’s no doubt that there’s a heavy nautical feel to Wrath of Khan.
(BSG spoiler alert)
Who didn’t suspect all along that they were headed to the Earth of our past, with characters named Thrace and Tyrol and Agathon (I presume that the average cable sci-fi fan knows jack about European history – maybe more than I should), or the presence of the Greek pantheon in the Twelve Colonies’ religion?
But I was thinking they’d show up at a time period fairly close to when those words entered Earthling language.
I would like to have seen an explanation for hos a society whose gods resemble the worst aspects of American soap operas would have evolved individual liberty and rule of law.
Yah, in the classic Making of Star Trek, IIRC Roddenberry explicitly said his idea was “Horatio Hornblower” in the stars. If you’ve read Hornblower, you’ll instantly recognize the combination of get’s in awkward messes through no fault of his own, figures out clever escape, plus the oh gawd am I doing the Right Thing self-doubt issues that Roddenberry had Jim Kirk start off with, in the first season, and which he developed to a high-caricature form in TNG.
Furthermore, Roddenberry very correctly observed in the Star Trek sriptwriter’s guide that the purpose was to tell an entertaining story about people and that any script that got hung up on technology would be rejected, because if it wasn’t no one would watch the show.
And he was quite correct. The criticism by Stross is clueless. People read fiction stories, or watch fiction drama, to be entertained by stories about, yes, people. If they want to bone up on technology or science, they dig out a textbook or take a class.
Indeed, all successful science fiction uses technological change to illustrate something about people that our present technological situation conceals, or fails to highlight. Hence, e.g., Larry Niven’s Known Space presents you with intelligent, successful species that are hyperaggressive and carnivorous, or vegetarian constitutional cowards, and invites you to find a chink in the realism of his portrayal — or admit that knee-jerk “war and aggression are dysfunctional primitive impulses” thinking is flawed, et cetera.
Besides, TOS is so much in the culture. There were a bunch of us gathered in one family member’s house, a large but old house having only one toilet, and I guess I took on the duty of working the toilet plunger when the thing inevitably got stopped up.
After turning away some earnest, would-be toilet users as I was plunging away trying to get the thing to syphon, I finally got it flushing and turned to the next person in line, “Ach, she’s flushing now. But I don’ know if she’ll hold for much longer!”
What about Michio Kaku and his explanations of how time travel is possible?
Star Trek was never science fiction. Star Trek was always a sea story transplanted to outer space. The recent film Master and Commander could have been a Star Trek episode – the Captain was Captain Kirk, the Doctor character was Spock (not Bones — I’d have to dig out my copy of the movie and watch it to see which character resembled Doctor McCoy; I think there was someone).
And Doctor Who, alas, isn’t science fiction either. It’s The Wind In The Willows in space. The Doctor is Mr. Toad — complete with his car that he can barely drive and crashes into things like planets, time periods… His companion/sidekicks are Ratty and Mole and Badger; the various villains (Daleks et al) are the evil weasels, stoats, and ferrets, the other Time Lords are the officious judge and other authorities who lock poor Mr. Toad up in gaol, except for Romana, who is the gaoler’s daughter who helps him escape prison. Heck, in one “classic” episode when John Pertwee was playing the Doctor, he even dressed up as a charwoman…
I forgot to add — the first Star Trek series was obviously the sea story. The scripts even had Kirk reference clipper ships and other old-timey sailing vessels all the time. The later Star Treks were more like Voyage of the Damned, or maybe Love Boat.
I like the phrase “tech the tech”. Seems so appropriate to some buzzword-rich environments out there. Having said that, Star Trek does share something in common with real science fiction, namely, an urge to explain things rather than just say “It’s magic” and wiggle fingers mysteriously. The urge is wasted though on technobabble that is no better than some mystic chant in terms of explaining a story.
The comments are both hilarious and informative. Look for the one about “compressed water”. If you were developing an SF show and you can’t do better than that, maybe you should go into the exciting world of fast food.
Q: A real science fiction movie?
A: Blade Runner
A: 2001
An Inconvenient Truth. Oh wait — that’s a fantasy. Never mind.
I do like the idea of using “tech” as a verb, it has a nice four letter feel to it.
When is someone going to turn “Stars my destination” (AKA “Tiger Tiger”) into a movie? It seems like a good fit and is somewhat allegorical with regard to the current state of the world and the nature of space/tech development.
That article helped me finally understand how the 11th Congress writes legislation.
111th Congress. I hate it when I drop that particular “1.”
The first and last ones are optional, but lose that middle one and it changes the whole meaning of the comment.
The similarities were entirely intentional. James Kirk=James Cook. Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals.
I find it interesting that he uses Ronald D. Moore’s characterization of what he found wrong with the writing style of Star Trek:TNG to condemn an entire genre, even lumping Ron Moore’s re-imagining of BSG in with it. Luckily, people took him to task on it almost immediately in comments.
Anyone who watched the new BSG would know that it’s not “tech the tech, so that the tech will save us”. And anyone who ever listened to Ron Moore’s commentary tracks would know that he was intentionally AVOIDING that sort of writing, because he found it so abhorrent in ST:TNG.
The other thing Ron Moore took issue with in the writing of ST:TNG was the over-use of random exposition by characters to explain what was going on, essentially treating the audience as a bunch of mush-headed idiots.
For as let down as I was by the BSG finale, I still understand what Ron Moore was doing with the show, and listening to his commentary, you really got a good feeling that he knew what he was doing, even if he was hamstrung as a writer on ST:TNG.
Overall, I felt that Stross came across as an arrogant jerk, complaining about how he was the only one left who knew how to write Science Fiction, and how everyone else writing novels and producing shows and movies are a bunch of no-talent hacks. Doesn’t make me want to run out and buy any of his novels, that’s for sure.
Jim Bennet:
The similarities were entirely intentional. James Kirk=James Cook. Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals
Wrong verb Jim…
Except that Kirk never does get killed by the locals
La petite mort?
The little death?
There is one episode where he dies in a ritual Vulcan fight to the death – but he gets better.
Yes, SF TV series pretty much suck as SF. But the TV series Stargate had real SF ideas in many of the episodes, such as the concept of the “replicators”.
I’m crying foul on Charlie. His book “The Jennifer Morgue”, which was very intertaining was all about character interactions, only he had Bob Howard gouling the goul, instead of teching the tech.
There is no “one true way” to write fiction. Some stories are remembered for their identifiable characters, and some are remembered for their unique plot devices.
I have started watching Stargate Universe since John Scalzi is the creative consultant on the show. We’ll see how he does with things like “compressible water”.
I believe I heard SF writer Ben Bova say the secret of SF was history. There is much to be said for that. Good SF creators look to see how humans of the past reacted to things beyond their knowledge to speculate how humans of the future could react to new developments in science and technology.
Please consider one of my favorite SF films — Star Trek: First Contact. Zefram Cochrane launches humanity’s first warp drive space ship from an abandoned missile base. What happened to the government? Various bases have been closed in our lifetimes — but hardware such as aircraft and weapons have not been left behind. Consider also the Borg. They are a collective who absorb individuals and take away their free will. See any similarities throughout history? You can even see parallels in today’s world. I could go on and on.
Put your replicators on stun and engage the holodeck to warp drive. We’re going to 10 forward for a tachyon torpedo served up Whoopi style. Mind your dilithium prime directives when adjusting the feedback on the graviton reflector dish. Mr. Data you have the battle bridge.
“The later Star Treks were more like Voyage of the Damned, or maybe Love Boat.”
How about ST-Voyager == Gilligan’s Island?
“Neeeelixxxx! We were about to be rescued and you got us stranded again. Wop, wop, wop (Janeway beats on him with a hat).”
Josh, I think you need to reverse the polarity. That might work.
Adaptation of an existing genre notwithstanding, I’d say that by comparison, the original Star Trek was definitely science fiction.
Was watching an episode of “House” the other night, and it dawned on me they, and probably all other “doctor” shows use the the same technique. Instead of “tech the tech” you get “med the med”. Of course we also have “legal the legal,” “cop the cop”, “CSI the CSI” “pilot talk the pilot talk” etc. etc…. Just shows how unimaginative Hollywood writers are…or that they have a formula that sells shows.
Andrea Harris,
I just picked up a book at the library that writer/director Nicholas Meyer wrote about some of his Hollywood experiences, including The Seven-Percent Solution and, most especially, his involvement in several Star Trek films.
When he discussed trying to work out the story for Wrath of Khan, he said his biggest insight and what would become for him the driving theme for the script was that Kirk was Horatio Hornblower and that Star Trek was really a collection of sea stories in space. He said that Roddenberry confirmed that influence, which is interesting, because Roddenberry often used the “Wagon Train to the Stars” analogy in his public statements.
Obviously, whatever the truth of that insight when applied to TOS, there’s no doubt that there’s a heavy nautical feel to Wrath of Khan.
(BSG spoiler alert)
Who didn’t suspect all along that they were headed to the Earth of our past, with characters named Thrace and Tyrol and Agathon (I presume that the average cable sci-fi fan knows jack about European history – maybe more than I should), or the presence of the Greek pantheon in the Twelve Colonies’ religion?
But I was thinking they’d show up at a time period fairly close to when those words entered Earthling language.
I would like to have seen an explanation for hos a society whose gods resemble the worst aspects of American soap operas would have evolved individual liberty and rule of law.
Yah, in the classic Making of Star Trek, IIRC Roddenberry explicitly said his idea was “Horatio Hornblower” in the stars. If you’ve read Hornblower, you’ll instantly recognize the combination of get’s in awkward messes through no fault of his own, figures out clever escape, plus the oh gawd am I doing the Right Thing self-doubt issues that Roddenberry had Jim Kirk start off with, in the first season, and which he developed to a high-caricature form in TNG.
Furthermore, Roddenberry very correctly observed in the Star Trek sriptwriter’s guide that the purpose was to tell an entertaining story about people and that any script that got hung up on technology would be rejected, because if it wasn’t no one would watch the show.
And he was quite correct. The criticism by Stross is clueless. People read fiction stories, or watch fiction drama, to be entertained by stories about, yes, people. If they want to bone up on technology or science, they dig out a textbook or take a class.
Indeed, all successful science fiction uses technological change to illustrate something about people that our present technological situation conceals, or fails to highlight. Hence, e.g., Larry Niven’s Known Space presents you with intelligent, successful species that are hyperaggressive and carnivorous, or vegetarian constitutional cowards, and invites you to find a chink in the realism of his portrayal — or admit that knee-jerk “war and aggression are dysfunctional primitive impulses” thinking is flawed, et cetera.
Besides, TOS is so much in the culture. There were a bunch of us gathered in one family member’s house, a large but old house having only one toilet, and I guess I took on the duty of working the toilet plunger when the thing inevitably got stopped up.
After turning away some earnest, would-be toilet users as I was plunging away trying to get the thing to syphon, I finally got it flushing and turned to the next person in line, “Ach, she’s flushing now. But I don’ know if she’ll hold for much longer!”
What about Michio Kaku and his explanations of how time travel is possible?