I thought the article was wrong-headed. It notes the problem with proprietary buggy voting software, and says – Use paper!
Backwards, I think. Require open source software and turn the Linus people loose on it.
Did you see what happened in 2021? How can anyone think that paper is a solution? In some countries, even ones way below the US in technology, an election is over at 8pm and the results are in literally by 8:01. This shouldn’t be as big a problem as it is.
Paper is durable-electrons are not. Every ballot should be serialized, on secure paper – watermarked, colored, holographed. The idea that someone can run a couple of thousand ballots off on a copier and have them counted should be so far from reality that to suggest it would be laughable – instead, it seems to have happened in several instances.
In theory, you can make backups work well enough that it would take a fairly herculean effort for someone to cover all their tracks if they changed something. In practice, that’s expensive, so if we aren’t gonna spend more money having paper at some point in the process is best.
If you take a backup, and dump it back into a compromised machine, guess what the result is? Especially when the software is so refractory that it requires techs at the voting centers to reload it – but don’t worry, the previous counts are retained?
Another problem is boxes full of ballots mysteriously appearing – how do people ‘lose’ large metal or wood boxes full of ballots? The boxes themselves are not controlled. Sounds like a good job for Sheriffs and the National Guard – moving ballots.
I’m thinking abandoned storage bins, full of pre-printed ballots. They all show up in 2042 at auction, when the county guy in charge of elections dies and fails to pay the rent on it.
when the county guy in charge of elections dies and fails to pay the rent on it
Or perhaps the state’s Secretary of State.
I’m from Illinois. I’ve seen and know how that works.
Actually I think we’re mostly in agreement. A purely electronic system with sufficient data integrity is probably out of the price range of many places. Electronic voting was mostly a technological fix to a problem that was mostly procedural. Ballots should be treated like large sums of cash or nuclear weapons, subject to positive control at all times until the election is certified. Instead, they’re treated like liquor store receipts thrown on the floor of an alcoholic’s car.
The boxes of ballots aren’t lost. They are under the table shrouded in curtains and will appear as soon as the observers have been ejected from the facility.
I suggest it’s more important to have serial numbers on paper ballots than it is on $1 bills.
“Since 2020, such worries have often been dismissed as right-wing propaganda, but just before the election USA Today published a roundup of concerns about electronic voting that cited numerous computer scientists.”
Yeah, in the lead up to the election, all of the left wing news outlets were running stories about the impending fraud. The USPS was going to cheat for Trump along with Russia, China, and computer hackers, all well known groups that support the GOP. Roving bands of the KKK were going to be at polling places!
“Finally, we need a better political culture. Politicians were once unwilling to challenge elections for fear of looking like sore losers. That has changed.”
Have to disagree with Insta here. We do need a better political culture but calling out cheating is how we get changes. Would we even have poll watchers if the loser just went away quietly? Marxists now control the military, should we just be quiet because raising objections would be impolite*?
*And possibly have your bank account closed and get you sent to jail.
I think the implication is, that cheating should be difficult enough to make it unlikely that accusations are true. Instead, in many elections the only real question is how much cheating not whether it happened.
I think Glenn likes what has happened after the election but not what happened between election day and Jan 6.
I don’t like Republicans acting like Democrat when it comes to protesting. It is obvious the two groups aren’t treated equally by the law enforcement community but I don’t like it because I don’t like violence in the name of politics.
I do think people prepared for defending themselves against Democrat’s militants but I am doubtful Trump supporters and Republicans planned out violence. I think we will find that the FBI played a role in directing events. But maybe not.
I get nearly equally upset with rogue government agencies going all Stalin as I do with Republican protesters picking fights with cops and breaking windows.
From Instapundit: Only in America will we drag out the chains, measure and view a play from 15 different angles to make certain we make the right call, but we won’t ensure the integrity of the election of the President.
^^
And whenever Democrats challenge election results, even those in 20202 (!), it is totally acceptable.
There are machines that print a paper record visible by the voter. The electronic count can be tallied instantly. The paper can be counted later by scanning and/or manual count. I believe that the paper goes into a secured box automatically. Any discrepancy would reveal if the electronic version has been hacked or otherwise misreported. That doesn’t fix the mail in ballot problem but it does address the electronic problem.
I think the big problem with mail in ballots is ballot harvesting. Ballot harvesting isn’t just collecting ballots from people too lazy to drop off a ballot at the multitude of drop boxes, it is bribery, coercion, and finding votes after hours.
I live in WA state and back in 2004, the Republican candidate for Governor lost on the 3rd recount after a couple boxes of ballots were found in the trunk of a car. The guy won on election night and two recounts later but the third one he lost because of magical boxes that were delivered by the lady of the lake.
Vote by mail is very convenient but also open to all kinds of fraud. Democrats in WA don’t typically need fraud because of how many people live in King County but the systems are in place should they be required.
I thought the article was wrong-headed. It notes the problem with proprietary buggy voting software, and says – Use paper!
Backwards, I think. Require open source software and turn the Linus people loose on it.
Did you see what happened in 2021? How can anyone think that paper is a solution? In some countries, even ones way below the US in technology, an election is over at 8pm and the results are in literally by 8:01. This shouldn’t be as big a problem as it is.
Paper is durable-electrons are not. Every ballot should be serialized, on secure paper – watermarked, colored, holographed. The idea that someone can run a couple of thousand ballots off on a copier and have them counted should be so far from reality that to suggest it would be laughable – instead, it seems to have happened in several instances.
In theory, you can make backups work well enough that it would take a fairly herculean effort for someone to cover all their tracks if they changed something. In practice, that’s expensive, so if we aren’t gonna spend more money having paper at some point in the process is best.
If you take a backup, and dump it back into a compromised machine, guess what the result is? Especially when the software is so refractory that it requires techs at the voting centers to reload it – but don’t worry, the previous counts are retained?
Another problem is boxes full of ballots mysteriously appearing – how do people ‘lose’ large metal or wood boxes full of ballots? The boxes themselves are not controlled. Sounds like a good job for Sheriffs and the National Guard – moving ballots.
I’m thinking abandoned storage bins, full of pre-printed ballots. They all show up in 2042 at auction, when the county guy in charge of elections dies and fails to pay the rent on it.
when the county guy in charge of elections dies and fails to pay the rent on it
Or perhaps the state’s Secretary of State.
I’m from Illinois. I’ve seen and know how that works.
Actually I think we’re mostly in agreement. A purely electronic system with sufficient data integrity is probably out of the price range of many places. Electronic voting was mostly a technological fix to a problem that was mostly procedural. Ballots should be treated like large sums of cash or nuclear weapons, subject to positive control at all times until the election is certified. Instead, they’re treated like liquor store receipts thrown on the floor of an alcoholic’s car.
The boxes of ballots aren’t lost. They are under the table shrouded in curtains and will appear as soon as the observers have been ejected from the facility.
I suggest it’s more important to have serial numbers on paper ballots than it is on $1 bills.
“Since 2020, such worries have often been dismissed as right-wing propaganda, but just before the election USA Today published a roundup of concerns about electronic voting that cited numerous computer scientists.”
Yeah, in the lead up to the election, all of the left wing news outlets were running stories about the impending fraud. The USPS was going to cheat for Trump along with Russia, China, and computer hackers, all well known groups that support the GOP. Roving bands of the KKK were going to be at polling places!
“Finally, we need a better political culture. Politicians were once unwilling to challenge elections for fear of looking like sore losers. That has changed.”
Have to disagree with Insta here. We do need a better political culture but calling out cheating is how we get changes. Would we even have poll watchers if the loser just went away quietly? Marxists now control the military, should we just be quiet because raising objections would be impolite*?
*And possibly have your bank account closed and get you sent to jail.
I think the implication is, that cheating should be difficult enough to make it unlikely that accusations are true. Instead, in many elections the only real question is how much cheating not whether it happened.
I think Glenn likes what has happened after the election but not what happened between election day and Jan 6.
I don’t like Republicans acting like Democrat when it comes to protesting. It is obvious the two groups aren’t treated equally by the law enforcement community but I don’t like it because I don’t like violence in the name of politics.
I do think people prepared for defending themselves against Democrat’s militants but I am doubtful Trump supporters and Republicans planned out violence. I think we will find that the FBI played a role in directing events. But maybe not.
I get nearly equally upset with rogue government agencies going all Stalin as I do with Republican protesters picking fights with cops and breaking windows.
From Instapundit: Only in America will we drag out the chains, measure and view a play from 15 different angles to make certain we make the right call, but we won’t ensure the integrity of the election of the President.
^^
And whenever Democrats challenge election results, even those in 20202 (!), it is totally acceptable.
The definitive response to electronic voting:
https://xkcd.com/2030/
There are machines that print a paper record visible by the voter. The electronic count can be tallied instantly. The paper can be counted later by scanning and/or manual count. I believe that the paper goes into a secured box automatically. Any discrepancy would reveal if the electronic version has been hacked or otherwise misreported. That doesn’t fix the mail in ballot problem but it does address the electronic problem.
I think the big problem with mail in ballots is ballot harvesting. Ballot harvesting isn’t just collecting ballots from people too lazy to drop off a ballot at the multitude of drop boxes, it is bribery, coercion, and finding votes after hours.
I live in WA state and back in 2004, the Republican candidate for Governor lost on the 3rd recount after a couple boxes of ballots were found in the trunk of a car. The guy won on election night and two recounts later but the third one he lost because of magical boxes that were delivered by the lady of the lake.
Vote by mail is very convenient but also open to all kinds of fraud. Democrats in WA don’t typically need fraud because of how many people live in King County but the systems are in place should they be required.